The Barclays Premier League Thread 2014/2015

[Baddar]

What a difference a season makes when it comes to the opinion of Rodgers. Not necessarily you in particular, Boxy, just in general.

[therockbox]

People got massively carried away last season. I thought it was fairly clear at the time we were basically carried by Suarez (and Sturridge to a lesser extent, who I think probably had the season of his life last year both in terms of goals and remaining fit) and there were clearly gaping holes all over the pitch, particularly in defence. His transfer record since joining is awful with a handful of exceptions and I dread him being given more money to waste in the summer.

The issues that I've had with him since he first joined (inability to organise the team defensively and a haphazard transfer policy) are still there, and he's shown no ability to improve these issues in three years. It's great watching us when we click but I almost feel like it's happening accidentally rather than by design. We go on runs where we look shite, he switches formation umpteen times, finally stumbles across one that works (and three at the back this season was just a case of flinging enough shit until something stuck, I'm sure of it), then that system gets figured out and we start again.

Rodgers is basically the Northern Irish Kevin Keegan.

[Bobfoc]

I can certainly see more ill-informed moves in the transfer market for Liverpool this Summer. Spending a small principality's GDP on someone like Charlie Austin seems highly possible.

[Hobo]

lol, no.

Literally the worst fan base for being entitled.

*shrugs* All football fans can be pretty awful in some way shape or form whether it's a sense of entitlement or a bigotry or general LAD BANTS.

I find it funny that some people expect Jurgen Klopp or Rafa Benitez to replace Rodgers. Klopp surely has bigger fish to fry, as does Rafa, whose woeful record towards the end of his Liverpool stint seems to have been conveniently forgotten.

The context around Benitez's last season or so is also forgotten. He was constantly at odds with the owners (who were bleeding the club dry to repay loans) and that took it's toll. He'd spent years at odds with H&G who gave him little support and seemed to be always trying to replace him. For the owners it was also more convenient to get rid of the argumentative guy and bring in Hodgson who wasn't going to cause them any hassle. It's easy to forget Liverpool in 2010 could've gone into administration.

I like Rodgers. I think he's a great coach. I think he's done a lot for the careers of Sterling, Couthino, Henderson and Daniel Sturridge too.

The issues that I've had with him since he first joined (inability to organise the team defensively and a haphazard transfer policy) are still there, and he's shown no ability to improve these issues in three years. It's great watching us when we click but I almost feel like it's happening accidentally rather than by design. We go on runs where we look shite, he switches formation umpteen times, finally stumbles across one that works (and three at the back this season was just a case of flinging enough shit until something stuck, I'm sure of it), then that system gets figured out and we start again.

Isn't this what football management is about though? I mean, name a manager who hasn't changed formations or bought a player that didn't turn out well? Liverpool played 3 at the back around November/December last season before switching to the much heralded diamond - so that was something he'd done before. I am almost certain of it. The defensive organization has been a problem - but - that is not limited to just Liverpool football club or Brendan Rodgers. Certainly not in the Premier League anyway.

Liverpool did overachieve last season it would be foolish to suggest otherwise. They also did so shipping goals like crazy (which I think hints back to the fact that defending in the Premier League is not a priority as long as you can score goals and particularly if you can blast away the lower half of the table). This season they've let in less goals (Simon Mingolet has the 2nd most clean sheets in the Premier League) in the league but lost goals for obvious reasons.The lack of goals is a bigger issue and it needs sorting out.

The transfer policy remains a bit shrouded and weird. Whether that is the committee or Rodgers or Ian Ayre or all three's issue I don't know. I'd rather see Liverpool go out this summer and get one big money striker. Goals win games. Liverpool don't have enough goals. They need goals.

I think it's nuts calling for his head at all. There are people who'll just not like Brendan Rodgers for whatever reason. Jurgen Klopp and Rafa Benitez are lazy links to a job that isn't even available. Rafa because he used to manage Liverpool, Klopp because he seems to be on his way out of Dortmund and seemed to get a massive kick out of going to Anfield in pre-season for a friendly.

I can certainly see more ill-informed moves in the transfer market for Liverpool this Summer. Spending a small principality's GDP on someone like Charlie Austin seems highly possible.

Soz, we got rid of Damien Comolli a few years ago. Can I interest you in the idea of James Milner on a free? Because I've heard that once or twice.

[DavidMarrio]

Football fans on twitter being moronic?!??! Why I never.

What's the point in getting rid of him, I see a lot of parallels with this season and his first. We have a young team and we lost a player who scored over 30 goals goals, we have pretty much lost a striker who scored 20 goals for most of the season

One of the points I have against Rodgers is he can be a right stubborn bastard at times in terms of we have to play a certain way and in terms of changes. Like yesterday what was the point in bringing Lambert on in the 90th minute. Bring him on earlier and he's got more time to influence the game instead of waiting around for Shay Given to kick a ball.

[therockbox]

Good coaches don't necessarily make good managers.

It's not simply the changing formation or bad signings in isolation. It's the constant thrashing around trying to find a formation that works despite spending every press conference talking about your philosophy. His transfers rarely make sense, both in terms of the players bought (again, strange for someone who apparently has a philosophy and a set way of playing) or the money spent. £25m on a 26 year old Lallana and we end up using him as a bit player is the obvious example but most of last summer's dealings were odd. Lovren was a good signing signing at Southampton for £7m but to spend almost three times that much on him 12 months later was madness. Balotelli was never going to work. Even though Lambert was basically peanuts we've never shown any intention of using him, even with Sturridge having spent a lot of time out injured and Balotelli being useless.

The point about trying 3 at the back last season before switching to the diamond is sort of what I mean. He stumbled upon it. I don't believe for a second he went into that season planning to end up playing that way. It got heralded as a stroke of genius but I'm not buying it. He got lucky last season, and I don't think he really understood why it worked. When he needed to change it towards the end of the season he just couldn't. Chelsea came and played for a draw and all we needed was a draw, we managed to lose. Then against Crystal Palace we went three up and should have shut up shop and been happy with the 3 points, but again he couldn't do it. This season rolls around and we're back to square one, with a system he's seemingly spent a lot of money buying players for in the summer not working, so we go through a host of different systems until finally one works. If he's still here next season (and unfortunately I think he will be) the same thing will happen again.

[Jimmy]

Good coaches don't necessarily make good managers.

It's not simply the changing formation or bad signings in isolation. It's the constant thrashing around trying to find a formation that works despite spending every press conference talking about your philosophy. His transfers rarely make sense, both in terms of the players bought (again, strange for someone who apparently has a philosophy and a set way of playing) or the money spent. £25m on a 26 year old Lallana and we end up using him as a bit player is the obvious example but most of last summer's dealings were odd. Lovren was a good signing signing at Southampton for £7m but to spend almost three times that much on him 12 months later was madness. Balotelli was never going to work. Even though Lambert was basically peanuts we've never shown any intention of using him, even with Sturridge having spent a lot of time out injured and Balotelli being useless.

The point about trying 3 at the back last season before switching to the diamond is sort of what I mean. He stumbled upon it. I don't believe for a second he went into that season planning to end up playing that way. It got heralded as a stroke of genius but I'm not buying it. He got lucky last season, and I don't think he really understood why it worked. When he needed to change it towards the end of the season he just couldn't. Chelsea came and played for a draw and all we needed was a draw, we managed to lose. Then against Crystal Palace we went three up and should have shut up shop and been happy with the 3 points, but again he couldn't do it. This season rolls around and we're back to square one, with a system he's seemingly spent a lot of money buying players for in the summer not working, so we go through a host of different systems until finally one works. If he's still here next season (and unfortunately I think he will be) the same thing will happen again.

I don't buy this. I'm not even that keen on Rodgers, but this is silly. He found a system that worked way beyond what Liverpool were predicted, and you still don't want to give him credit for it? They were in the title race, and nearly finished 2nd. Yes, they had Suarez in the form of his life, but we had Bale in that kind of blistering form, and we didn't finish 2nd, and I even think AVB did a fantastic job that season. He might not being doing very well this year, but undermining his achievements last season seems a bit silly to me.

[Hobo]

I think the fact he tends to tinker around until he finds a system that works is a good thing, personally. I'd rather that than someone who just says "WE SHALL PLAY 4-4-2 FOREVER NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS". Rather than stumbling I think it shows he's thinking about how to resolve issues. I mean, we don't know if they're constantly always working on these different systems etc. at Melwood.

The downside of 3 at the back is that without Sahko it doesn't really work as well. I also think there's been a bit more of an effort this season, although it may have only worked since December to be a bit more pragmatic about shutting games down (again see Simon Mingolet's clean sheet record this season). I think there is a lot of thought put in to why things are done tactically, at least, at Liverpool.

I enjoy Rodgers' stubborn nature and his willingness to bomb people out if needs be (what good manager isn't stubborn anyway?). I like that he's not afraid to drop Reina or Mingolet for Brad Jones of all people. Because on the flip side he's able to let Jordan Henderson prove him wrong or acknowledge that Raheem Sterling needs a mid season holiday.

I really don't know about transfers. I don't fully believe he has full control over it even though he says he does and even if he does the FSG philosophy of buying young players or players with perhaps "damaged" reputations hampers the process. Also Ian Ayre exists to complicate issues. Lovren and Balotelli I think were poor signings. Lallana has ended up picking up a few injuries during the season though and that's not helped him. I think he could come on a bit in his second season. Emre Can, though young and inexperienced has some immense qualities. Markovic falls into that bracket too. Lambert, I don't think Lambert was ever designed to be more than a squad signing anyway. I think Moreno falls somewhere into the Can/Markovic bracket. Manquillo as well.

Transfer fees are, I think, too easy to throw out into an argument on players but they're not really clear cut. It's pretty nailed on that any player moving from Premier League club to Premier League club is going to cost a lot of money even if they're just going to sit on the bench. I'd rather not see Liverpool buying from within the Premier League too much to be honest for that reason.

[therockbox]

I'd say Suarez was on a much higher level last season than Bale was for Spurs the season before (I think?).

What happened in the Chelsea and Crystal Palace games, coupled with how much worse we look this season is what makes me think it was luck last season rather than judgement.

edit

You can't keep tinkering around every season though, at some point you have to start getting it right from the off. If they were just slight changes it'd be different, but we seem to have ended every season playing in a radically different way to how we wanted to at the start. He's willing to bomb people out but that only seems to apply to certain players. Gerrard and Allen are two who should have got that treatment a long time ago (Allen in particular) yet he persists with them. They're the flipside of a player like Henderson proving him wrong (although I think Henderson has regressed this season), there are others that keep getting a free pass and we end up having to carry.

It's too easy to just blame FSG/the transfer committee for the transfer failings. He made it very clear in his first press conference with us that he had the final say on who arrived and who left.

Edited April 20, 2015 by therockbox

[Jimmy]

I'd say Suarez was on a much higher level last season than Bale was for Spurs the season before (I think?).

What happened in the Chelsea and Crystal Palace games, coupled with how much worse we look this season is what makes me think it was luck last season rather than judgement.

But didn't they also go on something like a ridiculous 11 game winning streak? That's not luck.

It was down to that incredible run, that we're even talking about the Chelsea and Palace games being deciding points in their season.

And I'm not sure, about the first bit, but it certainly didn't hurt that Liverpool had Sterling and Sturridge in form to support Suarez last season, while Bale had to kind of had to take the burden on his own with Defoe & Ade not firing. Either way, both phenomenal players.

[therockbox]

I think finding the system absolutely was luck, we went through enough before finding it. As I said, it wasn't a slight change, it was a radical upheaval from what we started out playing. I'm not saying Rodgers doesn't have his plus points, I think he's very good at keeping momentum going, the problem is I don't think he really knows how to get it going in the first place. The Chelsea/Palace games are issues because they required something different from what had worked before - especially the Chelsea game - and he completely failed to recognise that or make the necessary changes. He has frequently looked incredibly tactically naive in Europe as well, whether it's the Champions League or Europa League.

Suarez was that good last season I think it only helped players like Sterling and Sturridge elevate themselves. This season nobody has looked to be anywhere near the level they were last year, everyone has got worse. I don't think Sturridge will have a season like that again, even if he does manage to stay injury free, and Sterling looks like a player who has already decided he wants out.

[Szumi]

I personally laugh at the Klopp rumors because everything I've ever read is he wants to manage a Champions League club, which automatically rules Liverpool out, yes? We're not a Champions League club.

[Lineker]

UEFA have confirmed that the opening rounds of next year's Europa League will start on July 2nd. This will include teams who qualify through the Fair Play League. England at the moment are set to earn a place this way. As it stands, that place would go to West Ham. This means that with the internationals in June, some players may get a summer break of just two and a half weeks.

[Kaney]

Suarez was a million miles better than Bale, at their peaks. Easily.

[Szumi]

I can see West Ham being told by Big Sam to pick up a lot of bookings now.

Truthfully, I expect the West Ham owners to be rid of Sam at the end of the season.

[stokeriño]

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-manchester-united-stars-brother-9077849

Amused by this little anecdote about Mourinho's Google sleuthing and The Case of the Very Similar Fellaini Brothers.

[Matt]

Why not just so Eden Hazard? :/

[Lineker]

I can see West Ham being told by Big Sam to pick up a lot of bookings now.

Truthfully, I expect the West Ham owners to be rid of Sam at the end of the season.

Well, apparently Sam has said that he is all for playing in Europe next year via the Fair Play league. But I think you're right, he will be replaced.

[Hobo]

This season nobody has looked to be anywhere near the level they were last year, everyone has got worse.

tbf, the champions also have been worse.

I think a drop off is the logical conclusion of finishing 2nd, losing Suarez and bringing in a bunch of players especially young ones. I never expected the momentum to continue. It's certainly less of a drop off than the previous post-title challenge season and Liverpool are still 6 points behind Man City with a game in hand.

[Colly]

Suarez was a million miles better than Bale, at their peaks. Easily.

Have either of them hit their peak?