Is there a need for a new, more simple wrestling sim?

[Cymbols]

I am looking for something more simple than EWR.

Well I'm looking for an e-fed

[Baddar]

Do you mean roleplay for wrestling?

Also, I have TEW 13 thanks to the EWB auction, but still haven't played it properly. I just can't get into it. Nothing wrong with the game, it just seems the days of wanting to book a wrestling promotion are over.

[SeanDMan]

If you're not using your license you should send it to me. >_>

[TEOL]

I got to the point in TEW 05 where I could book a card as fast I could in EWR but I have to pay more attention to do that. I find I can't listen to podcasts while I play like I could with EWR because I have to focus more on the game. I have to worry about agents, I have to worry about who refs, I have to sit and think about what notes I need for every match.

And, again, this is of no relevance. As has been pointed out repeatedly, all of this is stuff that's been streamlined in TEW 2013. So when you say 'TEW cards take longer to book than EWR cards', what you're actually saying is 'I don't want to pay for TEW'. Which is fine, if you don't want to pay for a wrestling simulation game you're perfectly free to play ones you can get for free, but don't turn around and act like it's because EWR is somehow a better game.

I suppose I look at it from the perspective of someone who prepares shows with notes beforehand, perhaps that's where the difference comes in?

I've written a diary using TEW for years now, and I definitely find TEW quicker and easier for booking shows than EWR. Going back to EWR now, with all its mandatory drop downs and the like, would be a massive chore for me now - I've tried getting back into it and I can't, I find it too tiresome. Especially for a diary game - the whole 'maximum eleven segments per show' thing in EWR was always silly and in a diary, I want to have a higher level of control over the show's content than that. The idea that people are actually arguing in favour of EWR's approach is bizarre.

[METALMAN]

I think some of the people zealously arguing in favour of EWR or for TEW are neglecting to consider that everyone is going to approach the game in a different way and that what is complex for one person might be straightforward for another.

Trying to change somebody's contention that the find TEW complex to one of being too much of a cheapskate to play the game is reductive and completely unfounded. I thought we were above that kind of thing.

A fair number of people find TEW is a bit too complex, and saying that you don't find it to be the case doesn't completely invalidate their point of view. It's all relative, which is why it's pointless even disputing it. And I'm an idiot for continuing this.

[apsham]

The constant argument of "this doesn't appeal to me" countered with "you just don't want to pay for something" is extremely frustrating when you look at the fact that Kirkland is basically arguing the same EXACT thing that I have, and I have purchased every single TEW game within a few months of their release (basically under the pretense that each would be easier to book until we landed on 2013).

And yes, there is a good deal of autobooking that takes place - but I've found it to be massively flawed. I am talking about a fundamental example of what it takes to be successful in a game (and don't throw sponsorship and the other sliders of EWR back at me, because you all know how easy that is to manage, Sophine tells you everything and sponsors couldn't be easier). In EWR, you do a very simple one time setup for the most part and you're done. The dropdowns have never been an issue for me, and are ten times more prerable to popped up menus in my eyes - especially when you can tab through them. And getting back to the things that are managed for you - I've found almost every show that it's still something I have to keep an eye on. Sure, it autobooks me a referee or a road agent but it may not be the one that I wanted for the match (based on match priority and skill level of those involved) so if I have to go in and edit that (along with other mentioned default settings) then what's the point of it being done for me anyways?

I can see people enjoying TEWs approach. The bizarre thing to me is trying to figure out how people can't appreciate EWR which has lasted players over a decade now on a single version - and when people say "maybe it would be nice to have that, but with the ability to add in a few..." they're instantly railroaded with "JUST BUY TEW ALREADY."

[TEOL]

I think some of the people zealously arguing in favour of EWR or for TEW are neglecting to consider that everyone is going to approach the game in a different way and that what is complex for one person might be straightforward for another.

Trying to change somebody's contention that the find TEW complex to one of being too much of a cheapskate to play the game is reductive and completely unfounded. I thought we were above that kind of thing.

A fair number of people find TEW is a bit too complex, and saying that you don't find it to be the case doesn't completely invalidate their point of view. It's all relative, which is why it's pointless even disputing it. And I'm an idiot for continuing this.

I don't deny that some people are just going to approach it differently, and I get that. But when people are citing as examples of overcomplexity in TEW things that are only in TEW05, and were removed in later games in the series, I don't see what's incorrect about drawing the conclusion that those people haven't played any games in the series past TEW05. And what's the difference between TEW05 and later games in the series? You can get it for free. Which, as I said, is fine in and of itself - no one's forcing anyone to spend money on wrestling management sims if they don't want to. But people are essentially saying 'I like EWR better than TEW13 because I didn't like TEW05', and that's just silly.

[TEOL]

The constant argument of "this doesn't appeal to me" countered with "you just don't want to pay for something" is extremely frustrating when you look at the fact that Kirkland is basically arguing the same EXACT thing that I have, and I have purchased every single TEW game within a few months of their release (basically under the pretense that each would be easier to book until we landed on 2013).

And yes, there is a good deal of autobooking that takes place - but I've found it to be massively flawed. I am talking about a fundamental example of what it takes to be successful in a game (and don't throw sponsorship and the other sliders of EWR back at me, because you all know how easy that is to manage, Sophine tells you everything and sponsors couldn't be easier). In EWR, you do a very simple one time setup for the most part and you're done. The dropdowns have never been an issue for me, and are ten times more prerable to popped up menus in my eyes - especially when you can tab through them. And getting back to the things that are managed for you - I've found almost every show that it's still something I have to keep an eye on. Sure, it autobooks me a referee or a road agent but it may not be the one that I wanted for the match (based on match priority and skill level of those involved) so if I have to go in and edit that (along with other mentioned default settings) then what's the point of it being done for me anyways?

I can see people enjoying TEWs approach. The bizarre thing to me is trying to figure out how people can't appreciate EWR which has lasted players over a decade now on a single version - and when people say "maybe it would be nice to have that, but with the ability to add in a few..." they're instantly railroaded with "JUST BUY TEW ALREADY."

I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree with you here, although Kirkland pretty obviously wasn't arguing the same thing you were - he even said 'in TEW05', so suggesting he was somehow weighing in on the EWR vs. TEW13 debate is nonsense. But ultimately, if you want to play a game where it matters to you which referee or road agent is assigned to a match, that's your choice. You can skip over it if you want to. EWR doesn't give you that option, and saying that it's somehow better because it has less choice is an argument I don't get.

Personally, I can't go back and play EWR any more - I find all the drop downs and stuff too time consuming and the lack of control over the content of shows annoying. But, OK, other people aren't going to see that the same way. And it's not like TEW13 is perfect or anything - the interface has always been a problem in TEW, I think, right back to the original game, and I don't think there's any easy fix for that considering the level of information it has to make available to the player. But then, I can't go back and play TEW05 any more either, for the same reason. Why anyone would even be talking about TEW05 in this thread, I don't know, but people are, and I don't see why I shouldn't see that as an unfair comparison to make.

I do think it's silly when people say 'if only we had EWR but with...' because it already exists. TEW is it. It's silly to sit around wishing for something that already exists just because it isn't exactly the way you want it to be. But maybe that's just me. Again, the idea that people would actually be in favour of such unrealistic elements as the limited segments per show thing is baffling to me, but if that's how people would rather play the game, then sure, I guess. Just seems weird to me that people would be in favour of lack of realism.

[apsham]

Hmm. I can kinda help you with that last part - in some form or another. At least for me.

Once again, I love TEW 2013 and intend to get back to playing it as soon as possible (which in all reality, is going to be once GTAV dies down for me) but when I was playing it heavily - I was keeping two games going at once, one in EWR and one in TEW. In my EWR game, I had a general idea of where I wanted to go and wanted to progress along that path. I think the "segment maximum" per show based on time slot is a good compromise in that aspect, I can book rather quickly without having to stop and think about how many minutes I wanted this one thing to take and the myriad of other aspects that you might want to take into consideration while playing TEW (another example is popularity spaced out by what region you are in - an absolute killer for me whenever I tried to play an indy with TEW).

My TEW game however - was played whenever I wanted to feel like I was the actual booker, restricted by real life constraints and literally walking around with a notepad full of match, gimmick and storyline ideas. That's the aspect of TEW I like - when you just book and deal with stuff as it comes up. But it took me a lot of planning just to lay out exactly what I would be doing and became tedious when I was sitting there trying to book a rather insignificant WCW Saturday Night, just wanting to get further down along the line to see my vision laid out. Whenever I hit a wall like that, I would switch over and start playing my EWR game for a while.

We're ultimately talking about two very different experiences fundamentally in these regards. To take it in sports game terms, you could say that EWR is an arcadey type of sim, while TEW is more straight up simulation. There's fans for BOTH sides but I think by nature - even if TEW 2013 was free - there is going to be a wider fanbase for people who just want to jump in and get something done... and the one thing that I really can't agree to disagree with in this aspect, comes down to the "EWR but with.." angle here when what I've had in mind all along is something like what Kirkland initially stated (leaving out the time based element for a more 'select the amoung of segments') which boils down to a more customizable EWR... NOT an entirely different game with new mechanics.

[Noah]

I was going to detail my experiences but Aspham did it better.

I have both games going but more often than not, when I'm in the mood for a wrestling text sim it'll be EWR because I want that cheap arcadey thrill that wont eat up too much of my time.

Plus a strict anti-drugs policy in 1993 WWF never goes well for me in my TEW game.

[Baddar]

If you're not using your license you should send it to me. >_>

Sure.

$40.

[SeanDMan]

minus 40.

[Baddar]

-40 for Baddar?

[=BK=]

The constant argument of "this doesn't appeal to me" countered with "you just don't want to pay for something" is extremely frustrating when you look at the fact that Kirkland is basically arguing the same EXACT thing that I have, and I have purchased every single TEW game within a few months of their release (basically under the pretense that each would be easier to book until we landed on 2013).

And yes, there is a good deal of autobooking that takes place - but I've found it to be massively flawed. I am talking about a fundamental example of what it takes to be successful in a game (and don't throw sponsorship and the other sliders of EWR back at me, because you all know how easy that is to manage, Sophine tells you everything and sponsors couldn't be easier). In EWR, you do a very simple one time setup for the most part and you're done. The dropdowns have never been an issue for me, and are ten times more prerable to popped up menus in my eyes - especially when you can tab through them. And getting back to the things that are managed for you - I've found almost every show that it's still something I have to keep an eye on. Sure, it autobooks me a referee or a road agent but it may not be the one that I wanted for the match (based on match priority and skill level of those involved) so if I have to go in and edit that (along with other mentioned default settings) then what's the point of it being done for me anyways?

I can see people enjoying TEWs approach. The bizarre thing to me is trying to figure out how people can't appreciate EWR which has lasted players over a decade now on a single version - and when people say "maybe it would be nice to have that, but with the ability to add in a few..." they're instantly railroaded with "JUST BUY TEW ALREADY."

I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree with you here, although Kirkland pretty obviously wasn't arguing the same thing you were - he even said 'in TEW05', so suggesting he was somehow weighing in on the EWR vs. TEW13 debate is nonsense. But ultimately, if you want to play a game where it matters to you which referee or road agent is assigned to a match, that's your choice. You can skip over it if you want to. EWR doesn't give you that option, and saying that it's somehow better because it has less choice is an argument I don't get.

Personally, I can't go back and play EWR any more - I find all the drop downs and stuff too time consuming and the lack of control over the content of shows annoying. But, OK, other people aren't going to see that the same way. And it's not like TEW13 is perfect or anything - the interface has always been a problem in TEW, I think, right back to the original game, and I don't think there's any easy fix for that considering the level of information it has to make available to the player. But then, I can't go back and play TEW05 any more either, for the same reason. Why anyone would even be talking about TEW05 in this thread, I don't know, but people are, and I don't see why I shouldn't see that as an unfair comparison to make.

I do think it's silly when people say 'if only we had EWR but with...' because it already exists. TEW is it. It's silly to sit around wishing for something that already exists just because it isn't exactly the way you want it to be. But maybe that's just me. Again, the idea that people would actually be in favour of such unrealistic elements as the limited segments per show thing is baffling to me, but if that's how people would rather play the game, then sure, I guess. Just seems weird to me that people would be in favour of lack of realism.

I played the newest TEW's demo. It seemed just as crowded as 05. I use 05 as an example because that's the one I've played the most.

[Phil Parent]

I'd like a game in which you have the option of booking the matches or hiring a booker to do it, who does a good or bad job depending of the talent he has to work with and his personnal ability.

If you do not play the role of the booker, then you only build your roster and handle the business end of things.

This old account of mine has only 88 POSTS?!? WTF? What the fuck was my original account on here?!?

Edited September 15, 2013 by Phil Parent

[TEOL]

I played the newest TEW's demo. It seemed just as crowded as 05. I use 05 as an example because that's the one I've played the most.

Well I don't know what to tell you, then. 13 is light years ahead of 05, if you thought it was more of the same then you must be approaching it differently to me.

[Colly]

This old account of mine has only 88 POSTS?!? WTF? What the fuck was my original account on here?!?

Kou?

[brenchill]

Brad Harris.

[TEOL]

He's the FLI guy. Come on, people, learn some EWB history.

[PhilParentRXPW]

Wrestling Manager is artistically really impressive, I wish it was on PC though...

It isn't, isn't?

An iPod is not my idea of a gaming device. I see these people play games on Android devices with the gamepad on the screen and I cringe so...

About FLI, heh, I was bored and didn't have much of a life 10-12 years ago. the fantasy was nice. Hell of a creative outlet too, and I have to say that if I did create my own game, FLI would totally be in its fantasy universe because it was a pretty solid.

For those not in the know, in the RaveX data update was a partially fictional fed named FLI of which I said I wrestled in. That was bullshit. That was also a solid 10 or 12 years ago. I'm not about to try something like that again, I have more of a life now, aside from recently hitting the unemployment line anyway.

Edited September 17, 2013 by PhilParentRXPW