Electronic Entertainment Expo 2013 (E3)

[King Ellis]

Then are we allowed to discount 'They banned Srar/Eo, everyone's collection is screwed!'

[Sousa]

As a point of fact, I think the fact that Srar could potentially be cut off from her entire collection of games because a credit card was declined is kind of a big deal, yes. The "oh no you have to break the rules" concern trolling sort of misses that point. If my credit card is declined, they don't come to my house and take away my ham.

Which brings me back to my original point: I buy ham, and I own ham. The idea of buying "licenses" instead of games is exactly the sort of draconian bullshit that baffles me.

So yes, it does matter, because while the plural of "it didn't happen to me" isn't "it didn't happen to anybody," the plural of "it did happen to me" is absolutely "it could happen to anybody."

[EWB's Best Poster.]

Don't ever threaten sousa's ham.

[Lint]

As a point of fact, I think the fact that Srar could potentially be cut off from her entire collection of games because a credit card was declined is kind of a big deal, yes. The "oh no you have to break the rules" concern trolling sort of misses that point. If my credit card is declined, they don't come to my house and take away my ham.

Which brings me back to my original point: I buy ham, and I own ham. The idea of buying "licenses" instead of games is exactly the sort of draconian bullshit that baffles me.

So yes, it does matter, because while the plural of "it didn't happen to me" isn't "it didn't happen to anybody," the plural of "it did happen to me" is absolutely "it could happen to anybody."

Sorry Sousa. Your credit card got declined when you bought gas. I'm gonna have to take away your ham

[Maxx]

Better companies than Microsoft have tried to take back Sousa's ham and failed.

[Sousa]

I fucking love ham.

I am the anti-Lineker.

[LL!]

I thought Lineker loved ham.

[Crybaby Bunting]

Wait, you can get your Xbox Live account banned if your credit card expires? I haven't touched my Xbox in about 3 months and I think my card expired in between then, should I say goodbye to my games library now?

[Maxx]

Yes, they'll probably be sending someone along to repossess them this week.

[Sousa]

should I say goodbye to my games library now?

Well, you don't own an XBone, so you're okay, as what we've been talking about is how the precedents of the previous generation will apply as it pertains to the policies of the next.

[LUKIE]

As far as I am aware Steam only bans steam accounts (which means you lose your games) if you are caught hacking. I have not heard of people losing their steam accounts for anything else.

[apsham]

If Microsoft does this - it's simple. Don't buy the X-Box One. It's nothing more than that really.. hell yeah it's not right, but if it's there in the terms when you buy the damn thing - that's how it is.

But I submit that what happened to Srar would be far more closely monitored if this kind of system were to be put into place, and in her situation it could've easily been worked out.. just as I am sure Steam has done for people in the past. And breaking street date on games? You know you're not supposed to do it so.. you're playing the odds with the risks there when situations like that arise, really.

Oh - and with the credit card thing and the XBox - I've never heard of it happening outside of Srar (I'm sure it has though) and I seriously paid for my Live with a whole series of prepaid credit cards which were of course declined each time it came around. This happened for like.. 2 years and I was never flagged, blocked or anything of the sort.

[EWB's Best Poster.]

Could we change the subject away from how much Xbox is pissing people off?

There's gotta be something better out of e3 people liked.

No one here has huge plans to get one, let's talk about the systems we are.

[EWB's Best Poster.]

As a for instance, I'm kind of excited about Titanfall rumoured to go multiplat.

Not unusual that's for certain for that to happen after a little while, so if its decent its a buy.

Would love some extra bonuses like levels and such for the wait.

[Kaney]

I'm pretty sure it's relevant to talk about how shit the Xbox is :/

I still need to get round to seeing the Dead Rising trailer though MGSV has pretty much blown me away. What's the big deal about Titanfall? I'll need to check that out cos it seems like that's the big thing people won't shut up about.

[MDK]

Its a FPS. IN SPACE! or something.

Looks pants

[SeanDMan]

It's interesting, all of the rules and restrictions Microsoft has put in place.

However, there's a lot of questions as to whether any of it would ever stand up in court. Companies can put anything they want in an EULA but whether it has legal validity in the face of consumers rights is another thing.

It's essentially rooted in first sale doctrine, which has long gone untested at the highest levels of the courts. Consider for a second that you're at your dodgy mom and pop corner store. They have crisps for sale, fifty cents a packet. Do you think that they went to Frito Lay and signed up a distribution contract to get regular deliveries of crisps, or do you think they went to the nearest wholesaler, bought a box of 24, and then split that box up to sell the bags one by one?

If you look on the bags you can probably even make out the "Not For Individual Resale" disclaimer, but no one has ever pursued something like that to court, so there's no idea whether that would ever hold up and lead to any kind of charges. Simply, if everyone makes money and someone eats the crisps, no harm is done. This basically applies to games as well. Microsoft isn't stupid; they put in laws knowing they can't be enforced because they know that when anyone challenges them, they can simply negotiate a settlement on individual cases. The one thing that might end up being a big deal is "if you don't live in a first world country, you can't play XBox One." I can see that one being an interesting case. In terms of "BEHAVE OR WE WILL TAKE ALL OF YOUR TOYS!", it will be handled the same way Steam handles it: on a case by case basis and in most cases, they'll default to the customer for the sake of public relations.

[Cactus Drags]

Um... If I buy an XBOX ONE, I should be able to act like a dick because I bought. It's mine. I should be able to do whatever the fuck I want with it as long as I am not doing anything illegal. That's how all property works. This isn't the same as PS3 banning from playing a game online, it's banning my entire catalogue of XBOX ONE games.

Coke can't tell me to stop mixing Diet Coke with rum because they don't wanted to be associated with underage drinking. Black and Decker can't stop me from using their chainsaws to cut my pubic hair (though, I should probably stop). That's how the world works. If I am doing something illegal, than that is a problem and react accordingly. But if you sell something, it isn't yours any longer and you don't have any power over it. If these companies want to retain control over it, the price of whatever they offer would need to decrease significantly. XBOX ONE hasn't. They've essentially restricted your use in several substantial ways (completely subject to however they dictate the license) and made their system more expensive. That is literally bad business 101.

False. You'll need an Xbox account which will require you to accept terms and conditions. Presumably one of said terms is "don't be a prick online or we'll ban your account".

But 'break the rules and we'll steal your property, which you've bought from a seller independent to ourselves' is ridiculous, what possible right to they have to do so? Is there a list of X-box network bannable offenses somewhere? It's making them a law unto themselves, and I would not be willing to put my faith in that system.

Put it this way, if I got banned from here for saying Blackburn weren't very good (they're brilliant incidentally) and Sousa turned up at my house to steal my laptop I would not be best pleased.

I think the XB1 games are being treated more as licenses rather than property. So if you misbehave you can have your license revoked.

I'm glad you've not been banned Summers and I'm not saying you'd get banned at the drop of a hat but literally a guy from this very board was banned because he got games early. Captain Eo or something? Either way the punishment is incredibly disproportionate to the crime. Like I said, I'm all for banning hackers and cheaters from online play but they've no reason to remove your right to play offline. And if you've paid sixty bucks and up just for the game itself, I'd say you've got a right to play it.

He was dodgy, bad example. I'm the same as Summ, I've had games early from work and there's never been an issue. Whenever the early game thing has popped up, there's been something dodgy, whether it be stolen stock or whatever. I think there was one legit problem with Halo 4 where they caught some genuine buyers in with a load of pirates.

They where banning people who got Halo 4 early. Some where pirates, some where not but they banned all until they could prove otherwise.

If that happens on X1, you couldn't play anything until you send proof in you had bought the game and waited for them to sort it.

I was suspended for a few days a couple of years ago for having "Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo" in my bio, no warning or anything, that'd mean I couldn't play any games at all if that was on the X1.

I'd imagine the PS4 doesn't do this. Microsoft are trying to make me not want an X1 at all costs (I was leaning towards going MS next gen before the announcements because of how much I love my 360, it's done me well and I always defend it in any arguments on here or elsewhere).

You're confusing suspension for banning.

[Dan]

I imagine suspension would be the same but for x amount of days.

Not that any of this matters, Major Nelson has said that this will not happen.

[King Ellis]

Back then, the thrill of getting you suspended was enough. Now you get thank you messages from Microsoft for helping to make Xbox Live a cleaner and safer place for everyone!