Official Tottenham Hotspur Thread

[alldaws1]

Either way, I just find it hard to take the opinions of people who make those opinions based on highlights and 1 game.

I have no opinion for you to take on Nolan. I was praising Jenas, I wasn't evaluating Nolan. I wasn't dishing out my opinion of Nolan, it was just an off-hand comment because my opinions are based on mainly what I've read about him and from that I was saying I'd prefer Jenas in the England squad.

AD, I have noticed how its been only recently that you've started contributing regularly to these threads and you also said you'd not seen Nolan this season or heard of Cattermole, from that I built the assumption that you haven't caught a lot of football this season.

Actually I said I've seen Nolan once. By once I mean a full game, I've seen him a few times in highlights, but I've clearly seen games where he wasn't outstanding. Obviously I pay more attention to Tottenham than any other team so it's no surprise I'm not the king of knowledge about Boro back-ups or Bolton players when they're not exactly making the top headlines.

Well, even if you loosely follow the game I'd assumed you'd have been aware of Nolan this year, considering at times he has single handedly got Bolton wins. He hasn't made the TOP TOP headlines, but he has been in them regularly enough, especially around most England squad selection times, due to a lot of people believing he deserves a place.

Of course I've been aware of Nolan this year because of what people have said and from match reports I have read, but just because I've heard he was having a good season doesn't mean I should know everything there is to know about him and his play :ohwell:

[Guest muddatrucker]

You clearly say he's not deserving of an England place in the thread. I just add that to comments about other teams other than Spurs and wonder how you came about your opinions.

Edited May 15, 2006 by muddatrucker

[Liam]

Knowing that he is good, and probably better than Jenas (which was the initial point) isn't knowing everything about his play.

And Mudda's basic point was that even if it was a throwaway comment, saying you think Jenas should play ahead of Nolan when you have hardly seen him is a little bit...well, pointless. From the looks of it, you have no basis for comparison....plus if what you've read about him as good, and thats what you mostly base it off of, where is the problem?

[alldaws1]

Read it again then. I clearly said "I'd still rather have Jenas". Not once did I say Nolan shouldn't be in the England squad.

[Liam]

Kevin Nolan may have had a decent season, but he's not deserving of an England shot in my mind

One of the first ones I came to.

[Guest muddatrucker]

Kevin Nolan may have had a decent season, but he's not deserving of an England shot in my mind

[alldaws1]

I thought you were referring to me saying 'Nolan is useless.' I don't even remember typing that :ohwell:

Fair enough, I take it back then. That comment clearly had no reasoning behind it other than I was disagreeing with the guy who said that Nolan is better than Jenas, which obviously I'm going to disagree with.

plus if what you've read about him as good, and thats what you mostly base it off of, where is the problem?

I have no problem, you and mudda are grilling me for not watching enough Nolan this season. That's what I base my opinions on Nolan off of, but I've seen Jenas play a lot this season. I'm clearly going to have a higher opinion of someone that I've seen play well than someone that I've only read about playing well.

[Guest muddatrucker]

I just can't take your opinions literally when it seems the only football you watch are tottenham games, and just because someone says a player is better than a player for your team, it doesnt mean you have to disagree, thats just blind bias.

I'm not grilling you for not watching enough of him, I'm saying you can't form a decent opinion of someone based on pretty much nothing.

Edited May 15, 2006 by muddatrucker

[Liam]

Yeah, but our point is that its a mute point even making the comparison if you haven't seen the other player hardly at all.

I've seen enough of both teams (as I work at a bookies), so my opinion is coming from a pretty balanced view, and Jenas doesn't deserve a place ahead of Nolan. Even FI pointed that out, and he is a pretty die hard Spurs fan from what I know. Doesn't mean you have to go that way, but shows people can be objective.

EDIT: For reference:

Nolan's useless. Reo-Coker's not a bad back-up choice. I'd still rather have Jenas.

That is where you said it. I'd possibly even say I'd be looking at Reo-Coker as much as Jenas, if anything.

Edited May 15, 2006 by rvdwannabe

[fineintent]

Jenas is rubbish.

Having watched every Spurs game on TV, and having been to a couple this year, I can say that. He had a good season or two at Newcastle, and undoubtedly has a real talent, but goes missing far too often and for a centre-midfielder that's a big problem. He has had a few games where that talent has shone through, but the bad ones outweigh that.

My problem with the likes of Jenas and Hargreaves at the World Cup is what are they supposed to do there? Neither can come of the bench and change a game and neither, despite what Sven wants us to believe about Hargreaves, can come on to protect a lead.

[alldaws1]

I just can't take your opinions literally when it seems the only football you watch are tottenham games, and just because someone says a player is better than a player for your team, it doesnt mean you have to disagree, thats just blind bias.

I'm not grilling you for not watching enough of him, I'm saying you can't form a decent opinion of someone based on pretty much nothing.

Maybe I've worded it wrong or whatever, but I'm not disagreeing that Nolan is a better player than Jenas. From what I've seen, which ok is a lot more of Jenas, I would choose Jenas ahead of Nolan. And I'm not asking or telling you to take my opinions literally, by all means click on that 'ignore user' button if you don't want to read my opinions.

When did I form a 'decent opinion' on Nolan anyway? I haven't and haven't claimed to have done so!

Yeah, but our point is that its a mute point even making the comparison if you haven't seen the other player hardly at all.

I've seen enough of both teams (as I work at a bookies), so my opinion is coming from a pretty balanced view, and Jenas doesn't deserve a place ahead of Nolan. Even FI pointed that out, and he is a pretty die hard Spurs fan from what I know. Doesn't mean you have to go that way, but shows people can be objective.

I'm preferring one player over another. If you like Player A and from what you've seen of Player B, Player A is better then of course you'd prefer Player A. I'm not claiming to have done a fair comparison between the two players.

If I'd seen an equal amount of both players like you claim to have done then my opinion might be different, I'm not denying that. I'm openly saying I've seen little of Nolan. I've seen a lot of Jenas. Even if I was a Rangers fan I would have the same opinion based on what I have seen.

[Guest muddatrucker]

When did I form a 'decent opinion' on Nolan anyway?

Edited May 15, 2006 by muddatrucker

[alldaws1]

When did I form a 'decent opinion' on Nolan anyway?

Kevin Nolan may have had a decent season, but he's not deserving of an England shot in my mind

Nolan's useless. Reo-Coker's not a bad back-up choice. I'd still rather have Jenas.

I've since said that those opinions were without real backing and that they weren't fair opinions...

[Guest muddatrucker]

Likewise its still been said and it still applies to the said discussion, which is what the last several posts have been about, my first point was that when you're saying stuff like that I can only wonder how educated your opinions on anyone non-spurs are, and thats the original point I was making.

[The Slickman]

Jenas is a fantastic player on his day but hes a player that if he doesnt turn up or seems to have his mind on something else he is useless. I was at the Everton away game this year and he was the best player on the park, alot of fans rang up praising him on 505, one even calling him "The next Roy Keane" which I dont agree with at all. I go to another game and he is useless so its not that Jenas is rubbish, he is REALLY inconsistant.

I think that this season Nolan has deserved a spot alot more than JJ.

And a sidenote on the Spurs shirt if it has some really good lettering I think it will save the blandness of the front.

Edited May 15, 2006 by The Slickman

[alldaws1]

Likewise its still been said and it still applies to the said discussion, which is what the last several posts have been about, my first point was that when you're saying stuff like that I can only wonder how educated your opinions on anyone non-spurs are, and thats the original point I was making.

Yes I watch more Spurs games than other clubs which should be quite obvious as they're the team I support and they've been amongst the top few televised teams this season, but I do watch other games as well. So yes, my opinions on Spurs players will be 'more educated' than some others, but if I've not seen much of a player I'm usually one to say that I haven't seen much of them before attempting to make a comparison between them and another player.

[Guest muddatrucker]

But once again the point is that didn't happen when refering to Nolan (all of a week ago)) and because of that reason and how harshly you rated him, I'm unsure how to take your future opinions.

[alldaws1]

If you disagree with my future opinions then say so and if I realise I've made an unfair comment then I'll say so. If I think I've made a fair comparison, I'll back it up. But really I don't care how you take my future opinions. Ignore them completely if you wish.

[Guest muddatrucker]

This whole 'just ignore me' bullshit is tedious, I'm disagreeing with you, take it, give it back, but don't be like this. I just think its tainted my view of your opinion and I'm telling you that, I don't need to ignore anyone.

[alldaws1]

You're not disagreeing with me, you're telling me my opinions suck and that you can't take them seriously.