The 2011/12 Gary Speed Memorial Thread

[stokeriño]

You shouldn't spend £50m on anyone, would to me seem the better view to take.

And the "he is there to score goals" is a funny one to me, a rather blinkered way of looking at any player and their respective 'role', not just Torres.

He's there as part of a team that is meant to score goals and not concede them, thereby winning games. Is he not equally important when he takes up a position to defend corners? Are defenders who score goals "doing it wrong"?

Creating the goal or putting it across the line, as long as the goals actually get scored...so what?

[MJB]

You shouldn't spend £50m on anyone, would to me seem the better view to take.

And the "he is there to score goals" is a funny one to me, a rather blinkered way of looking at any player and their respective 'role', not just Torres.

He's there as part of a team that is meant to score goals and not concede them, thereby winning games. Is he not equally important when he takes up a position to defend corners? Are defenders who score goals "doing it wrong"?

Creating the goal or putting it across the line, as long as the goals actually get scored...so what?

They're not doing it wrong, but it's a bonus if a defender scores a goal, that's not what he's in the team for, he's in the team to 'defend'. By the same token, a striker is in the team to 'strike', to score if you will.

I do agree, though, that you shouldn't spend £50m on anyone, especially as a panic buy on the last day of the January Transfer Window.

[stokeriño]

I suppose to summarise, both of the following statements could be (and perhaps are) equally true:

1. "When Drogba plays, he scores more goals than Torres would."

2. "When Torres plays, Chelsea score more goals than with Drogba."

I know which one my priority is.

(P.S. Panic buy nothing. Liverpool agreed to sell a couple of weeks prior, but wanted to keep it quiet so that they could sew up the Suarez deal without being fleeced by Ajax knowing they had £50m to spend.)

[Colly]

I suppose to summarise, both of the following statements could be (and perhaps are) equally true:

1. "When Drogba plays, he scores more goals than Torres would."

2. "When Torres plays, Chelsea score more goals than with Drogba."

I know which one my priority is.

Scoring more goals than either statement?

[stokeriño]

Depends whether the whole bloody squad's sulking or not. It may not be necessary.

[MJB]

I suppose to summarise, both of the following statements could be (and perhaps are) equally true:

1. "When Drogba plays, he scores more goals than Torres would."

2. "When Torres plays, Chelsea score more goals than with Drogba."

I know which one my priority is.

(P.S. Panic buy nothing. Liverpool agreed to sell a couple of weeks prior, but wanted to keep it quiet so that they could sew up the Suarez deal without being fleeced by Ajax knowing they had £50m to spend.)

Didn't know this.

Oh and wouldn't it just be easier to play Sturridge up front on his own with Torres and Drogba in the stands?

[Colly]

(P.S. Panic buy nothing. Liverpool agreed to sell a couple of weeks prior, but wanted to keep it quiet so that they could sew up the Suarez deal without being fleeced by Ajax knowing they had £50m to spend.)

If that's true they clearly forgot that clever ploy when they decided to get fleeced for 6'4 of ponytail.

[stokeriño]

You'd think it might. AVB never played Studge up top though.

Maybe it'll happen at some point now that Ramires is playing on the right more.

[Hobo]

Chelsea didn't buy goal machine Fernando Torres. They bought had a horrible world cup, not really performing all that well in general for a while Torres. I do wonder how much of Torres now is down to not being the focal point of the teams attack, not having Gerrard behind him etc.

I think as regards Carrol, he spent the first while he was at Liverpool injured. The ideal situation of Gerrard/Suarez/Carroll hasn't really been able to happen. The pressure the media have put him under seems to have gotten to him a bit but his run of games prior to the Carling Cup final saw him steadily get better. Like Torres, he does a lot of work but isn't scoring goals.

I feel bad for both of them really. I think one positive of a Rafa Benitez led Chelsea might that having Benitez there might to Torres a bit of good. But that is about it.

[METALMAN]

I dunno. Rafe Benitez is a good manager. I think he's a decent candidate, and Mourinho aside, there aren't many better options.

[DavidMarrio]

Rafa is a good candidate. Roman wants to win the Champions league title that is the thing he craves the most, Rafa is one of the better managers when it comes to winning games on the European stage. I mean he helped beat Chelsea on two different occasions in the Champions League over two legs, beaten Barca over two legs, beaten Real Madrid over two legs and we were at one bit the number 1 ranked team in Europe because of our European form.

I mean in terms of the league I think sometimes he does do questionable decisions every now and then but every manager does that. He helped us get our best league position in years in a season in which we really should have won the league and blew it, however the last season at us I think the fact that the whole backroom drama didn't exactly help as it affected everyone at the club but he'd do a good job at Chelsea. Realistically with Guardiola I cannot see him going to Chelsea, will Mourinho want to go back (stranger things have happened) Hiddink is at Anzi ain't he?, Redknapp I cannot see him going either.

Onto Torres, Chelsea and their style of play do not suit Torres, that and as pointed out earlier we sold him when he wasn't exactly at his best in terms of form and the fact he had been hit with numerous injuries which will have taken its toll somewhat.

But I do think its just obvious to point out that he isn't scoring when he is helping out the team in other ways, I've said it before during the season it is easy to go and go LOL Torres or LOL Carroll or LOL (Insert misfiring striker)over the numerous years and forget about other contributions they are making to the team because end of the day they are a striker.

He's getting more assists at Chelsea but I believe that is because he drops back a hell of a lot more at Chelsea then he did for us and seems to be crossing the ball in more because when he was at us, he was basically the focal point of our attack, hang on the last man with Gerrard or Alonso supplying a ball to him run at the keeper and goal.

[Mad Jack]

A striker's primary job is to score goals. If a striker is failing to do that then there's a clear problem that needs addressing. Spending 50 million, or even 35 million, on a striker who doesn't score goals is a big waste of money, no matter how many assists they make or excuses other people make.

[METALMAN]

A striker's primary job is to score goals. If a striker is failing to do that then there's a clear problem that needs addressing. Spending 50 million, or even 35 million, on a striker who doesn't score goals is a big waste of money, no matter how many assists they make or excuses other people make.

Yes, exactly! I mean just look at Dennis Bergkamp, Arsenal hero. Only scored a goal every four games or so. Despite that, he's an Arsenal hero and arguably the best foreign player ever to play in England!

Or, perhaps look to Gianfranco Zola, Chelsea hero. Only scored a goal every four games or so. Despite that, he's a Chelsea hero and arguably the best foreign player ever to play in England!

That's a similar strike rate to Emile Heskey.

Or maybe they're just shit because they weren't fulfilling their primary job, which is to score goals, apparently.

[TCO]

Yeah but neither of them were ever prolific in the Premier League and neither of them cost £50mil on the basis of their goalscoring ability.

[METALMAN]

Yeah but neither of them were ever prolific in the Premier League and neither of them cost £50mil on the basis of their goalscoring ability.

Pay attention to the point I'm making. My point was that a striker's primary job is not necessarily to score goals. At no juncture did I mention anything about Fernando Torres or a £50m transfer fee. AND AND AND AND AND AND AND AND AND AND you say this "Yeah but neither of them were ever prolific in the Premier League" right, you say that. You know, basically the entire point of my post, right, you use that...to disagree with me? Wot?

Really now, pay attention.

[Mad Jack]

A striker's primary job is to score goals. If a striker is failing to do that then there's a clear problem that needs addressing. Spending 50 million, or even 35 million, on a striker who doesn't score goals is a big waste of money, no matter how many assists they make or excuses other people make.

Yes, exactly! I mean just look at Dennis Bergkamp, Arsenal hero. Only scored a goal every four games or so. Despite that, he's an Arsenal hero and arguably the best foreign player ever to play in England!

or, perhaps look to Gianfranco Zola, Chelsea hero. Only scored a goal every four games or so. Despite that, he's a Chelsea hero and arguably the best foreign player ever to play in England!

That's a similar strike rate to Emile Heskey.

Or maybe they're just shit because they weren't fulfilling their primary job, which is to score goals, apparently.

Zola: Cost 4.5 million.

Bergkamp: Cost 7.5 million.

Carrol: Cost 35 million.

Torres: Cost 50 million.

You'll forgive me if I expect better than 1 goal in 6 games and 1 goal in 11 games from the two biggest transfers between British clubs in history.

[METALMAN]

A striker's primary job is to score goals. If a striker is failing to do that then there's a clear problem that needs addressing. Spending 50 million, or even 35 million, on a striker who doesn't score goals is a big waste of money, no matter how many assists they make or excuses other people make.

Yes, exactly! I mean just look at Dennis Bergkamp, Arsenal hero. Only scored a goal every four games or so. Despite that, he's an Arsenal hero and arguably the best foreign player ever to play in England!

or, perhaps look to Gianfranco Zola, Chelsea hero. Only scored a goal every four games or so. Despite that, he's a Chelsea hero and arguably the best foreign player ever to play in England!

That's a similar strike rate to Emile Heskey.

Or maybe they're just shit because they weren't fulfilling their primary job, which is to score goals, apparently.

Zola: Cost 4.5 million.

Bergkamp: Cost 7.5 million.

Carrol: Cost 35 million.

Torres: Cost 50 million.

You'll forgive me if I expect better than 1 goal in 6 games and 1 goal in 11 games from the two biggest transfers between British clubs in history.

Pay attention to the point I'm making. My point was that a striker's primary job is not necessarily to score goals. At no juncture did I mention anything about Fernando Torres or a £50m transfer fee. Or for that matter, anything about Andy Carroll or a £35m transfer fee.

Really now, pay attention.

[Hobo]

I dunno. Rafe Benitez is a good manager. I think he's a decent candidate, and Mourinho aside, there aren't many better options.

Oh I agree, Rafa is a very good manager - but I don't think he's going to be a very good fit with Chelsea. I'm not sure Roman Ambramovich would like a manager who won't take shit from the owner, which Rafa doesn't. I don't think Chelsea fans will want him at the club. I also don't think the media particularly like Rafa Benitez. I've always gotten the feeling that he's like the anti-Mourhino.

[Mad Jack]

Pay attention to the point I'm making. My point was that a striker's primary job is not necessarily to score goals. At no juncture did I mention anything about Fernando Torres or a £50m transfer fee. Or for that matter, anything about Andy Carroll or a £35m transfer fee.

Really now, pay attention.

The problem is, metalman, your point is wrong.

[DavidMarrio]

Of course you expect better when players cost that much. But compare the amount of football in the English game and in general today to back in 1995 when Bergkamp joined and Zola a year later in 1996. There wasn't exactly Russian billionaires or multi millionaire baseball owners in the Prem.

The world record transfer fee in 1995 in Britain was Bergkamp costing 7.5mil, in 1996 the British record transfer was Alan Shearer for 15mil which at the time was also the worlds biggest transfer fee.