The 2011/12 Gary Speed Memorial Thread

[Starvinho]

very dangerous when you go in two footed with studs that high.

Two footed? Studs high? We were watching the same tackle right?

I could ask you the same. Fair enough only one foot made contact but on the follow through both his feet where off the ground at one point. And I'm not sure how you can argue that his studs weren't high?

[Summers]

I'd have booked all the Liverpool players swarming the ref afterwards for dissent too.

Me too. I hate it when any team does that.

[therockbox]

Yeah, to be honest, all that video proved to me was that it probably deserved to be a red. The follow through caught him studs up, that is a red these days.

Do you think Rodwell's red card should have stood? The 'follow through' caught Suarez studs up on the ankle in that tackle as well.

[Liam]

Yeah, to be honest, all that video proved to me was that it probably deserved to be a red. The follow through caught him studs up, that is a red these days.

Do you think Rodwell's red card should have stood? The 'follow through' caught Suarez studs up on the ankle in that tackle as well.

If I could find a video, I'd look. Can't really remember.

[Summers]

Rodwell's and Spearing's are so different.

[Summers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuAEkd8q9fM

For Liam.

[Starvinho]

I don't think you can compare this to the Rodwell one, this one was a potential leg-breaker, Rodwell's was no-where near being as severe.

[Liam]

On the radio, they were talking about 'if he had his leg planted, serious injury' yadda yadda, which is basically a fair point in my eyes. The Rodwell one is hard to see, but from what I remember, I don't think that one is as severe in nature, but that is just me.

[therockbox]

very dangerous when you go in two footed with studs that high.

Two footed? Studs high? We were watching the same tackle right?

I could ask you the same. Fair enough only one foot made contact but on the follow through both his feet where off the ground at one point. And I'm not sure how you can argue that his studs weren't high?

His right foot wasn't high because made contact with the ball, which was on the ground, with the inside of his foot. Of course every single time you kick a ball your foot is going to get higher as you follow through, but he doesn't go into the tackle with his right foot raised. His left foot only comes off the ground when the impact of the tackle spins his entire body around, but at that point he's not got any forward momentum and his foot just spins round with the rest of his body. It goes nowhere near the ankle that Dembele was holding.

There's nothing in the rules that say both feet being off the ground is an automatic red card (or even yellow). The rule is if a tackle is careless or reckless, which the tackle itself clearly isn't - one foots planted in the ground, and he kicks the ball with the inside of his boot, which is when the impact with Dembele occurs. The collision spins him round and brings the other foot off the floor, but that's not dangerous or reckless, it's something completely out of his control.

edit: Rodwell's contact with Suarez isn't as bad as I remember, to be fair (although he does catch him on the ankle), but he does win the ball with his studs, so it does show that being 'studs up' at any point during a tackle isn't necessarily worth a red card.

[Jimmy]

Rodwell's wasn't even a foul, let alone a red card.

[MJB]

Just take another look at Starvinho's picture. It's a red card.

[Summers]

Being studs up and catching a player like this;

is a red.

[Starvinho]

Here's another pic from BBC just incase people think the other still is misleading;

A red from any angle in my opinion.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Starvinho

[therockbox]

Here's another pic from BBC just incase people think the other still is misleading;

A red from any angle in my opinion.

Problem with a picture that long after the tackle is that you don't see the tackle itself. Not saying that he didn't catch him, he clearly did, but he caught him on the follow through of a natural kicking motion, which can happen any time a player makes a pass or takes a shot.

[R.W.]

Are you saying the tackle wasn't hard and lunging in nature rockbox?

[Summers]

So if someone jumps for a header and wins it cleanly.. THEN elbows someone in the jaw on the way down, is it a foul?

[MJB]

You can also see his left foot, even further off the ground can't you?

[Jimmy]

Just when I think there's been enough silly arguments on EWB for one day, I subject myself to reading a couple pages of this.

[Hobo]

Spearing was off his feet. His studs were showing. It changed the game. It was unfortunate that neither Henderson nor Carroll's chances went in. Fulham were lucky in a way to get the goal, as Reina spilled it. But I've no dispute over Spearing's sending off.

[Gazz]

It's a red card, doesn't matter if he wins the ball, he's off the ground, two feet up, leading with the studs.

Textbook.

Law 12

It does not matter whether the defender touches the ball first or not. If slide tackle was careless, reckless, or made with excess force, the Referee should penalise the defender. If two opposing players are running towards each other, and one of them decides to make a slide tackle from the front – then this is most certainly reckless and may on some occasions involve excess force. If a Referee decides NOT to immediately penalise such action, then he will give the 'Green light' for players to make reckless tackles during the rest of the game. And this cannot be allowed to happen.

Normally, no foul occurs when a player makes contact with the ball, before he makes contact with the opponent during a tackle. Conversely, the Referee SHOULD award a foul, if the tackle is done in such a way that the tackling player - although in Law making a clean tackle - undoubtedly aims to inflict some damage to the opponent by making the challenge in a rash manner.

The strength and outcome of the tackle will gauge what action the Referee will take.

(a) A strong talking to (for a 'careless' tackle):

(b) A caution for Unsporting Behaviour (if a tackle is made in a 'reckless' way):

© A sending-off (Serious Foul Play - even if the ball was touched first) if the tackle is done 'using excessive force', and in such a way that the ball is a secondary consideration, and inflicting injury to the opponent is the first.

These types of rash tackles are very easy to recognise, and should be penalised accordingly. Just because a tackling player makes contact with the ball first, this does not mean that every tackle is legal.

For example: A player who makes a reckless tackle and touched the ball before he touched the opponent - should be penalised. Touching the ball first does not necessarily give the tackling player a 'get out of jail card'.

The often heard shout of "But I played the ball Ref." does not necessarily mean free immunity for the perpetrator!

It was a definite c