***spoilers*** UFC News and Discussion Thread

[gunnar hendershow]

3 years ago that video would have been at the top of the "Things that will never happen" list.

As for beating Brock, it will happen and I'm thinking we're not too far off from it (By this I mean 3-4 fights). It might not be to a better fighter, but against someone who can slug away like Carwin. Brock was lucky not to get decked from the first minute of the match, but he weathered the storm and held on. He probably won't get away with it if that happens again.

[Toe]

That was a very satisfying event. A lot of very entertaining fights. I was glad I decided to order it.

[Bryan Blade]

Paul Heymsn leave it to him to spell out exactly what needs to happen in wrestling haha what a legend

[TKz]

I'm shocked that the ref didn't call it once Brock was on the ground. He blocked a lot but I know I've seen fights end for less than that amount of damage. Carwin really took it to Brock in the first round though.

[Baddar]

Yeah, they have been stopped for less, but as soon as they have, often the guy on the receiving end gets up and is all 'WTF ref!?', and considering how Lesnar recovered, that's exactly what would've happened there.

[Fitzy]

Excellent card. Sotiropoulos vs. Pellegrino got the night off to a great start. Sosynski/Bonnar put on a better fight than the last one. Great fight and great to see Bonnar pick up the win. No surprise in Lytle/Brown having a good fight. And Leben! Awesome job by him tonight. I am all for him vs. Wanderlei Silva like he called out. And Lesnar surviving that first round to come back and win with a submission, great stuff.

[Rich]

So lets see... I was going to come in and say before I watched the co-main that this is shaping up to be a great card that is opening up possibilities for people and their future fights. Lytle winning is pushing him up to a position I want to see him in the top 5 to 10 170 lbers in the UFC, George Sotiropoulos proves himself to be a contender at 155 and will now surely be moving up to facing a top 5 155 competitor and Bonnar's win proves to me he has finally sorted his head out a bit and can still be relevant in the UFC's 205 division, let alone Brendadn Schaub again proving his talent and Gerald Harris scoring another great victory, would love to see him on a main card somewhere along the line.

Then we got to the Co-Main. Fuck me! What a brawl, but wait? technical ground fighting and Chris Leben tapping a a highly decorated Judoka? jesus christ that was great, and proves that Leben is finally meeting some of that potential he showed 5 years ago in the first series of TUF. Then the main event was fantastic for MMA and the UFC with it being violent and exciting... but featuring another peace of amazing submission grappling with the head and arm/triangle choke, showing that Lesnar/Carwin wasn't just a fight about beef but the beauty of mixed martial arts.

This card has to go down as one of my favourites, up there with UFC 40 and 100, both of which I have pretty much put on a pedastal, but the whole card has left us with soooo much more than we had going in. A new undisputed no.1 havyweight, it gives Leben, Sotiropoulos and Lytle amazing amounts of legitmacy, the return of the American Psycho to form and saw the rise to relevance of Harris and Schaub, fantastic.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I think you're drinking the kool-aid a bit there Rich. Sotiropolous is for real (and I suspect he'll be fed maybe the Guida/dos Anjos winner to set up him vs. the Penn/Edgar winner on the next Australian show), but none of the other three guys are legitimate contenders. Leben beat a horribly overrated Japanese guy...yes he showed a good skill set, but it's not like he was fighting a Marquardt or Maia. Bonnar beat a guy who really wasn't ever UFC PPV caliber, he'd still get his ass kicked by at least a dozen guys in the 205 division nine times out of ten. Lytle beat somebody he'd already beat before.

Do these wins help them become better draws? Yes, especially with all the casual fans that were watching for Lesnar. But does it in any way affect the balance of the top-of-division rankings? Nope.

[Rich]

I'm excited, and the kool-aid tastes good

Come on Akiyama is and has been considered legit for a long while and his Judo pedigree speaks for itself, so for Leben to submit him? Its HUGE! Bonnar winning was important as you felt another loss and he wouldn't have any legitmacy anymore as a fighter in the UFC and he would constantly be on as a broadcaster... And I don't enjoy him in that role . Lytle for me is hitting the edge of the top 10 in what is one of the toughest divisions out there in the UFC 170 lb division, a win over the likes of a Paulo Thiago or a Kampwho? next, for example, would be amazing and really lift his stock even higher.

but you can not deny that PPV did everything right for the UFC, especially when so many more casuals are likely to be watching than a lot of the early 2010 cards.

[Fitzy]

I cannot see Chris Lytle being a top welterweight. He'll always been a solid fighter, but I am fairly sure that will always lose, like he has in the past, to top level welterweights. I just don't see him as being that great. Very good, solid fighter, just not top level.

But the win for Leben is certainly something good. Not sure how MPH can just brush it off as him "beating a horribly overrated Japanese guy."

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

No of course I cannot deny that, it was the best possible outcome for UFC.

But you are really making too much of Akiyama. World-class judo is useless in MMA if you don't have another skills to go along with it--look how Satoshi Ishii went from "can't-miss prospect" to fighting on random shows in Hawaii in record time. And Akiyama's MMA record was nothing special, his wins were over a plethora of the usual Japanese MMA jobbers, Alan Belcher (a close decision against somebody who most would have assumed to be worse than Leben), and Melvin Manhoef (a one-dimensional fighter who matches up poorly to judo). The most impressive name he's beaten is Denis Kang, and that...that's really not saying much.

Edit: And I agree with Fitzy about Lytle. He's the guy who you can build up for a TV main event against a Dan Hardy or Paulo Thiago-level guy time after time, but he'll never win that fight.

[Rich]

When he beat Kang, Denis was considered a top middleweight :/

(Straw clutching may be starting)

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Yeah but Kang was overrated at the time too

PRIDE's middleweight division back then was completely overrated the same way UFC's heavyweight division back then (the Sylvia/Rizzo days) was. Because they each had world class fighters at other weights, everybody assumed each division was roughly equal in quality.

[OctoberRaven]

Also, he's got a very shady track record. He's got two documented cases of alleged slicking (one in judo and one more famously in MMA), one of which he was caught practically red-handed, which is one of his NCs. The other NC is from the 2007 Yarrenoka! card where he lost a fight, but since it was a gsoccer kick (a foul in the ruleset), he basically acted humble, then the next day bitched about it to get it overturned (his other NC).

Oh, and:

I can't get as excited about a guy who runs backwards when he gets hit like Lesnar does as everyone else. He looked dreadful in the stand-up department, and though he has power, Carwin isn't exactly high caliber there either.

Before 116, Carwin knocked out EVERY SINGLE OPPONENT in the first round and has one-punch KO power. And seeing as Lesnar's entire strategy was "let Carwin gas in the first", what the fuck did you expect?

This may shock you, but a lot of martial arts is based on defense. Hence why some martial arts classes are called 'self-defense'.

[LL!]

I don't want to argue as I don't feel great after I've been binging since Wednesday, but a lot of you guys are talking way too much shit.

I will just make the point that Shane Carwin came into the Brock Lesnar fight with a horrible strategy. He pressured himself into thinking he NEEDED to beat Brock in the first and punched himself out. This does not prove that he's a 1 round fighter. He needs to take this loss and realize that it isn't all about the gimmick.

And fuck off for brushing off Akiyama. Go back to playing WMMA.

[Rich]

While its self defence, you can not claim that Lesnar's "Plan A" was to let Carwin punch him in the face for 3 minutes

[Forky]

I think my favourite part of the whole show, aside from Brock winning, was Zombie Leban still punching the hell out of Akiyama. That was an awesome card and I haven't even gotten around to watching the Prelims yet.

[naiwf]

While its self defence, you can not claim that Lesnar's "Plan A" was to let Carwin punch him in the face for 3 minutes

It works to build interest in a fight in pro wrestling. But more importantly, if he truly could tell that Carwin's strikes were becoming less effective I could see him just trying to absorb the punishment and live to fight another round. I think everyone knew this wasn't going the full 25, so if the other guy's gassing himself out and you aren't in too much danger, I could see that being a Plan A.5 at worst

Edited July 4, 2010 by naiwf

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I don't want to argue as I don't feel great after I've been binging since Wednesday, but a lot of you guys are talking way too much shit.

I will just make the point that Shane Carwin came into the Brock Lesnar fight with a horrible strategy. He pressured himself into thinking he NEEDED to beat Brock in the first and punched himself out. This does not prove that he's a 1 round fighter. He needs to take this loss and realize that it isn't all about the gimmick.

And fuck off for brushing off Akiyama. Go back to playing WMMA.

Are you sure that was his strategy? It makes sense to go for a finish once you've got a guy in trouble, but I think Carwin would have been a lot more tentative had his early shots not staggered Lesnar.

And Rich, what you said initially is what most people will see it as anyhow, so in a way you're right. It makes sense for UFC to hype these performances up as much as they can, because that way the inevitable losses are seen as that much bigger for the people who beat them.

[Rich]

Ha! I was right! MPH said so!

IN YOUR FACE WORLD