NFL 2009

[rocksta]

If Edwards is better then Russel why did Edwards throw more picks with a better line to arguably better receivers if hes a better decision maker?

[I Love Pokemon]

A lot of his Picks where as the injuries builded up and as after he had that concussion.

Plus who threw for more yards and had a higher QB Rating? Edwards thats who.

[livid]

Meh, you're just reaching now.

[DMN in the House]

Wow. I'm not going to even argue Edwards/Russell anymore, because at this point in their career they're basically in the same place. Edwards just has more weapons, Russell has more tools. Neither of them has won anything, so there's no way to argue that. I don't think Edwards is 'by far' the better QB, because, if he was, the Bills wouldn't have fallen apart like they did last year, because that team does have weapons.

Yes, Buffalo's defense has played better, and Oakland's has played worse, but, once again, on paper, I'd say that Oakland's is better. They have the best CB in the league, one of the most athletic linebackers, a top five middle linebacker, and a top end pass rusher. I don't think Buffalo can boast any of those right now. Again, with Oakland, it comes down to coaching, in every other respect, other than reciever, they are the better team, ON PAPER.

What I will go 'what the fuck' at is your assertation that Evans/TO/Lynch is better than Fitzgerald/Boldin/Warner. Nevermind the fact that you're comparing a RB to a QB (), and no, Arizona does not have RB comparable to Lynch, but they don't use the running game that much, so lets sub Edwards in there to be fair.

Kurt Warner has been to the Super Bowl three times, has a league MVP, and led, arguably, the greatest passing attack in NFL history. Trent Edwards hasn't done anything. No playoff experiences, probably a sub-.500 record (I'd have to check, but I'd put money on it). No comparison, outside of age Kurt Warner is the better player hands down. If you even argue that then you're going to prove yourself to have no knowledge of the NFL. The only arguement you could even make is that, if starting a team, you'd take Edwards, and thats only because he's younger. I'd wager money he'll NEVER be the QB Warner is/has been, even given the same talent around him.

Evans and Boldin is a toss-up. Lee Evans hasn't proven himself to be a number one, though he's been given the chance, and Boldin hasn't been given the chance. We could go to stats, but I'd probably rather have Boldin if I was a GM.

Terrell Owens versus Larry Fitzgerald isn't even a fair comparison. TO is a top 10 WR, maybe even top 3, but Larry Fitzgerald has a legitimate arguement as being the best WR in the league right now. He's younger, faster, and has better hands. TO might be stronger, but I'd doubt that one as well. No GM in the league is going to take TO over Fitz.

There is no arguement between the two. Evans/TO/Edwards is NOT 'just as good if not better', and throwing Lynch in there compared to Arizona was a great attempt at misdirection, but I ain't going for it.

[Mr Evil Guy]

LOL @ Buffalo being a contender. A wildcard contender, at best. They're the third best team in that division, and there are two to three teams that could contend for the playoffs in each of the other AFC divisions.

This coming from a Raider fan...

He never said the Raiders would be a contender next year. Why be a cock about it?

DMN may be sounding a bit foolish here, but that TO/Evans/Lynch statement just blows that out of the water. Shut up now.

[I Love Pokemon]

I was throwing Lynch in because unlike Arizona, Buffalo will still use him and their running game. And Marshawn Lynch is like Warner because he is one of the three main weapons vital to the success of the offense. The three main weapons on each team surely match up just as well. Edwards maynot ever be Kurt Warner, but Kurt is considered to be a top 12 or so QB of ALL TIME. So not many will ever come close to that.

And who is the Best CB? it's not ANYONE on Oakland. the guy could be playing for Denver though, i think his name was Champ Bailey. Or maybe Charles Woodson or Al Harris? Antonie Winfield? Cortland Finnegan? Ect....Ect...ect... But it's not anyone in Oakland.

And when is a 5-11 team better then a 7-9 team? Whats next the Cowboys are better then the Steelers? What matters is production and results. Buffalo won 7 games last year, they played better, thus they are the better team. Oakland hasn't gotten much better this Offseason Buffalo has.

[livid]

Well now you're just coming off as wrong.

Asomougha of the Raiders is one of, if not arguably, the best CB in the league.

Bailey was the best CB in the league 3 years ago.

Woodson is pretty good but Al Harris so incosnistent.

Winfield is good, but not anywhere near the best.

Finnegan had one good year.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Livid

[Maxx]

Yeah you're retarded if you're saying Asomougha isn't one of the best CBs in the league. Know why you don't hear his name ever? Because no one dares to throw against him.

"Opposing quarterbacks tested Asomugha only 27 times with 8 completions allowed the entire season. Only perennial all-pros Randy Moss (3 receptions, 40 yards) and Tony Gonzalez (2 receptions, 34 yards) would catch more than one ball on him during the year."

Champ Bailey is your pick for best CB in the league? Are we just disregarding last season?

Edited March 9, 2009 by Maxx Is Awesome Teammate

[JStarr]

Aaaaaaaaand, not to pile on, but...

Edwards maynot ever be Kurt Warner, but Kurt is considered to be a top 12 or so QB of ALL TIME. So not many will ever come close to that.

...WTF? Is this discounting the entire 20th century? We can play a nice little game of "name all the all-time QB's you'd rather have than Kurt Warner," I'm sure. I'll start. Unitas, Fouts, Marino, Montana, Young, Aikman, Kelly, Bradshaw, Peyton Manning, Brady, Moon, Tarkenton, Staubach...wait, I think I passed 12. Others can feel free to join in if they like.

If he was top 12 of all time, ESPN's people wouldn't be flapping their gums all through the playoffs and Super Bowl build about "Is Kurt a Hall of Famer?" There'd be no doubt, would there? And yes, I can see the "he's 4th all-time in passer rating" argument coming now...and so what? Tony Romo's third. Chad Pennington's 8th. Daunte Culpepper's 11th, for God's sake. The day anyone tries to use passer rating to convince me that Daunte Culpepper's a better QB than Dan Marino (16th, BTW) is the day that that person needs to have the men with the white jackets come take them to a nicely padded room. Preferably not the one here in the Dome, either.

[I Love Pokemon]

Aaaaaaaaand, not to pile on, but...

Edwards maynot ever be Kurt Warner, but Kurt is considered to be a top 12 or so QB of ALL TIME. So not many will ever come close to that.

...WTF? Is this discounting the entire 20th century? We can play a nice little game of "name all the all-time QB's you'd rather have than Kurt Warner," I'm sure. I'll start. Unitas, Fouts, Marino, Montana, Young, Aikman, Kelly, Bradshaw, Peyton Manning, Brady, Moon, Tarkenton, Staubach...wait, I think I passed 12. Others can feel free to join in if they like.

If he was top 12 of all time, ESPN's people wouldn't be flapping their gums all through the playoffs and Super Bowl build about "Is Kurt a Hall of Famer?" There'd be no doubt, would there? And yes, I can see the "he's 4th all-time in passer rating" argument coming now...and so what? Tony Romo's third. Chad Pennington's 8th. Daunte Culpepper's 11th, for God's sake. The day anyone tries to use passer rating to convince me that Daunte Culpepper's a better QB than Dan Marino (16th, BTW) is the day that that person needs to have the men with the white jackets come take them to a nicely padded room. Preferably not the one here in the Dome, either.

I never said i thought that. Read MSN, right after the superbowl they had a poll about is Kurt Warner one of the greatest QBs of all time, it was voted that he was by like 63% - 37%. Look i think Warner is a HOF, i won't go any further than that IMO. He is a great QB. But their are those people who think him bringing Arizona to the Super Bowl is good enough to be top 12-15 all time, i don't.

And i would never argue to say someone is better then Dan Marino with an exception of a very select few like only 2-3 guys. And ESPN reporters aren't exactly always very bright.

I can add some to your list; Favre, Starr, Stabler.

[I Love Pokemon]

Aaaaaaaaand, not to pile on, but...

Edwards maynot ever be Kurt Warner, but Kurt is considered to be a top 12 or so QB of ALL TIME. So not many will ever come close to that.

...WTF? Is this discounting the entire 20th century? We can play a nice little game of "name all the all-time QB's you'd rather have than Kurt Warner," I'm sure. I'll start. Unitas, Fouts, Marino, Montana, Young, Aikman, Kelly, Bradshaw, Peyton Manning, Brady, Moon, Tarkenton, Staubach...wait, I think I passed 12. Others can feel free to join in if they like.

If he was top 12 of all time, ESPN's people wouldn't be flapping their gums all through the playoffs and Super Bowl build about "Is Kurt a Hall of Famer?" There'd be no doubt, would there? And yes, I can see the "he's 4th all-time in passer rating" argument coming now...and so what? Tony Romo's third. Chad Pennington's 8th. Daunte Culpepper's 11th, for God's sake. The day anyone tries to use passer rating to convince me that Daunte Culpepper's a better QB than Dan Marino (16th, BTW) is the day that that person needs to have the men with the white jackets come take them to a nicely padded room. Preferably not the one here in the Dome, either.

I never said i thought that. Read MSN, right after the superbowl they had a poll about is Kurt Warner one of the greatest QBs of all time, it was voted that he was by like 63% - 37%. Look i think Warner is a HOF, i won't go any further than that IMO. He is a great QB. But their are those people who think him bringing Arizona to the Super Bowl is good enough to be top 12-15 all time, i don't.

And i would never argue to say someone is better then Dan Marino with an exception of a very select few like only 2-3 guys. And ESPN reporters aren't exactly always very bright.

I can add some to your list; Favre, Starr, Stabler.

EDIT: FUCK! My CPU fucked up and it posted twice.

Edited March 9, 2009 by I Love Pokemon

[naiwf]

I'll say one thing about Kurt Warner that some of you may or may not agree with, and that is that he may have the greatest peak in the history of NFL QBs. From '99-'01 he completed 67% of his passes, averaged almost 300 yards/game on just 32 attempts/game, and he threw 98 TDs (53 picks) in 43 games. Finally, his team went 35-8 in the regular season, averaged a ridiculous 32.7 PPG those 3 years and made the Super Bowl both years he played in 16 games. The rest of his career doesn't stack up to "top 10" status, but his peak is off of the charts.

[HailtotheYo]

In all honesty I feel that Warner is vastly underrated. Just compare him to Aikman, whom I admittedly feel is vastly overrated.

To date, Warner has played 110 games while Aikman played 165. So, in 55 less games the stats go down like this:

Aikman has 32,942yds while Warner has 28,501yds. In 55 less games he's only one to one and a half season's worth of yds behind Aikman.

Warner has 182tds while Aikman has 165tds.

Say what you want about the passing rating stat, but Warner's is 93.8 while Aikman's is 81.6.

In 55 more games, Aikman has 141ints to 114ints for Warner - the int% is 3.0 and 3.2 respectivley so this is pretty damn even.

Completion % for Aikman is 61 and Warner is 64.

Based solely on INDIVIDUAL merit, is Aikman really better than Warner ? I don't think so.

[naiwf]

Aikman is incredibly overrated. It's not hard to be the QB of a championship team when you happen to have an all-time top 5/10 WR and RB on your team in addition to a Pro Bowl caliber TE, a great offensive line and star studded defenses too.

[I Love Pokemon]

I agree with Warner having one of if not the best few seasons as a peak for a QB. I mean he was amazing. IMO he should be first ballot HOF. Over his career he wasn't always dominate, but during his peak he was.

hell Terrell Davis became a Semi-Finalist for only a few years of awesomeness.

EDIT: I meant so say was a Semi-Finalist for the HOF. my mistake.

Edited March 9, 2009 by I Love Pokemon

[HailtotheYo]

when the fuck was TD put in the HOF ?

[naiwf]

He made it in with Cris Carter, me and you last year.

[HailtotheYo]

Oh shit, that was TD ? Sorry I'd put on the Clinton Portis shades at that point and couldn't see very well.

[Sir Purr]

Aikman is incredibly overrated. It's not hard to be the QB of a championship team when you happen to have an all-time top 5/10 WR and RB on your team in addition to a Pro Bowl caliber TE, a great offensive line and star studded defenses too.

Didn't Warner have Bruce, Holt, and Marshall Faulk?

I'm not saying Aikman is better or anything, but it isn't fair to bring up Aikman having such talent around him when Warner had about the same (if not better).

[naiwf]

Aikman is incredibly overrated. It's not hard to be the QB of a championship team when you happen to have an all-time top 5/10 WR and RB on your team in addition to a Pro Bowl caliber TE, a great offensive line and star studded defenses too.

Didn't Warner have Bruce, Holt, and Marshall Faulk?

I'm not saying Aikman is better or anything, but it isn't fair to bring up Aikman having such talent around him when Warner had about the same (if not better).

Can you name another Ram besides their holy quartet of offensive players? I don't remember a single guy who played defense on those teams, or any of their offensive linemen. The Triplets Cowboys were STACKED with Pro Bowl players all over the place. Just look at some of the guys outside of their Big 3 that were big names during the run, Moose Johnston, Jay Novacek, Alvin Harper, Nate Newton (LG, 6 Pro Bowls, 2 All Pros), Mark Stepnoski (C, 5 straight Pro Bowls), Erik Williams (RT, 4 Pro Bowls, 2 All Pros), Mark Tuinei (LT, 2 Pro Bowls), Ken Norton, Leon Lett, Charles Haley, Deion Sanders, Darren Woodson. That is a shitload of talent outside of the skill positions. Warner didn't have anything like that. You have to go back to the glory days 49ers or the Steelers in the '70s to see stuff like that.