Official Premiership 2008/09 thread

[Matt]

Now I'm really hoping Villa can win tomorrow (Or whenever they next place), because I'd love to see them snatch second place.

But only if they score 30 more goals than their opponents...

...oh yeah, and only if Wins count as 4 points for one week only

I think he might mean at the end of the season...

[Hobo]

I'm hoping that we can still get 2nd, overall I think we deserve it. I'm thinking current the top four teams will be top four come the end of the season.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

Now I'm really hoping Villa can win tomorrow (Or whenever they next place), because I'd love to see them snatch second place.

But only if they score 30 more goals than their opponents...

...oh yeah, and only if Wins count as 4 points for one week only

Guess they could of done with Keane right now (Y)

Probably. Would have actually looked like he fit in today, we've been so poor.

Anyone would of been better than what seemed to be on show today (Y)

Didn't watch the game then? Not like you to comment on something you know fuck all about.

Seriously, stop moaning. It's fine for you to make jokes and shit on Keane, the minute it's played in reverse you start going off on one. Fact is Liverpool were poor today and close to laughable, if you don't want or like to admit to that then that's totally up to you. I'm not just saying that to hate on them, it's simply my opinion. Let's just leave it at that before it becomes another useless argument.

And yeah, I meant at the end of the season for Villa. If there's any time anyone is going to start breaking this apparent top four, now is the time. City must be gutted too, if they hadn't of played so shit at times and actually performed as well as they could, they could have done what they wanted and been in with a shout of the top four.

[therockbox]

Now I'm really hoping Villa can win tomorrow (Or whenever they next place), because I'd love to see them snatch second place.

But only if they score 30 more goals than their opponents...

...oh yeah, and only if Wins count as 4 points for one week only

Guess they could of done with Keane right now (Y)

Probably. Would have actually looked like he fit in today, we've been so poor.

Anyone would of been better than what seemed to be on show today (Y)

Didn't watch the game then? Not like you to comment on something you know fuck all about.

Seriously, stop moaning. It's fine for you to make jokes and shit on Keane, the minute it's played in reverse you start going off on one. Fact is Liverpool were poor today and close to laughable, if you don't want or like to admit to that then that's totally up to you.

Where did I say we were anything but awful today? I was merely pulling you up on the suggestion YOU made that Air Kick Robbie would somehow have made any difference whatsoever today. I asked if you watched the game (although you clearly didn't) because if you had you'd know the problem wasn't with what strikers we had on the pitch.

[FLiam]

Ugh.

Why won't the season just fucking end.

We're going to be very lucky if we get 6th this season, fucking embarassing our team. To be honest, I think Everton would deserve European football over Arsenal, it doesn't make a difference that we are unbeaten in about 16 games I think now, when more than half are draws, counts for shit. We will then see just how loyal some of these players are *cough*Adebayor*cough*.

[Matt]

Next season, barring huge investment (which I don't see Wenger making), Arsenal will barely stay in the top ten. They've been figured out and unlike Man Utd/Chelsea/Liverpool (to different extents) they don't have the quality to force wins when they're outplayed tactically and when half of their quality players are attracted to Barca/Real/wherever, this'll become even more evident.

Edited February 28, 2009 by Footjob Fever

[The Future]

I put money on Boro to beat Liverpool

Now Chelsea are going to push us down to the wire. Fantastic season...comes down to Utd vs Chelsea once again.

[Matt]

I put money on Boro to beat Liverpool

Now Chelsea are going to push us down to the wire. Fantastic season...comes down to Utd vs Chelsea once again.

I somehow doubt it. You'll be 10 points in front of them once you win your game in hand. Barring a mass injury crisis, Man Utd have the title sown up and it'll probably be mathematically confirmed by mid-April.

[Dynamite]

And Liverpool are still on level points with Chelsea so I wouldn't rule out Liverpool finishing above Chelsea just yet.

[stokeriño]

Barring a mass injury crisis

Correction: barring an injury crisis 3x worse than the one they've been enduring without appearing to suffer at all.

[Hobo]

Now I'm really hoping Villa can win tomorrow (Or whenever they next place), because I'd love to see them snatch second place.

But only if they score 30 more goals than their opponents...

...oh yeah, and only if Wins count as 4 points for one week only

Guess they could of done with Keane right now (Y)

Probably. Would have actually looked like he fit in today, we've been so poor.

Anyone would of been better than what seemed to be on show today (Y)

Didn't watch the game then? Not like you to comment on something you know fuck all about.

Seriously, stop moaning. It's fine for you to make jokes and shit on Keane, the minute it's played in reverse you start going off on one. Fact is Liverpool were poor today and close to laughable, if you don't want or like to admit to that then that's totally up to you.

Where did I say we were anything but awful today? I was merely pulling you up on the suggestion YOU made that Air Kick Robbie would somehow have made any difference whatsoever today. I asked if you watched the game (although you clearly didn't) because if you had you'd know the problem wasn't with what strikers we had on the pitch.

Rockbox isn't moaning. He's right. A lot of players had poor games today for Liverpool. El Zhar could've had a load of goals but he's not up for it. Babel had a terrible game. Gerrard was unfit (although had Rafa not played him the media would've jumped down Rafa's neck for it). Because the main attacking players behind him we'ren't much kop, Kuyt was pretty much buggered. Even Alonso had a shit game, after his OG.

There was also the odd occasion of Skrtel playing right back, whether as Rockbox suggested it was because Carra refused (the way he came off he didn't seem too happy but that may have been the performance of the team) or Rafa thought it would be better to have Carra and Hyppia together than Skrtel and Hyppia (have they every played together? I don't recall). Keane wouldn't have made a difference. Torres might have. Maybe Reira.

The only thing that we can take from this game is Lucas got a hair cut.

[Baddar]

I like how Garth Crooks was saying on BBC that Liverpool are out of the race, but Chelsea are still in it.

Riiiiiight.

[therockbox]

There was also the odd occasion of Skrtel playing right back, whether as Rockbox suggested it was because Carra refused (the way he came off he didn't seem too happy but that may have been the performance of the team) or Rafa thought it would be better to have Carra and Hyppia together than Skrtel and Hyppia (have they every played together? I don't recall).

They have, and he hasn't hesitated to do it with Carra on the right and those two in the middle, it's even been used this season. That's why I think Carra must have, at the very least, kicked up a fuss about playing at right back, because otherwise it just doesn't make any sense.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Okay, hear me out on this.

I've been trying to think as a non-biased fan as to various reasons for Arsenal dropping off the pace this last couple of years.

The first one is that their new pitch is wider than Highbury which had the fans right up next to the touchlines and the narrower pitch really played into their style of playing the ball through the channels and putting the ball across the goal for a tap in. The Emirates is bigger and doesn't serve itself so well for the Arsenal style of play.

Also Arsenal have had some frightening players in the last ten years, whether Henry, Pires, Fabregas, Viera, Hleb or whoever and Wenger made some great signings and then continued to make signings in the same vein (relatively cheap, relatively unheard of in England) but the quality just isn't as high and Arsenal are left with some players that aren't really fit to wear the Arsenal badge and, as some pundits have said, have left Arsenal with their worst team in over ten years. Basically the Arsenal bubble has burst and a rethink and squad rebuild is needed for success.

I think I recognise it cos Tottenham did it (albeit at a lower level of course) a few years ago where Jol inherited a team which had been allowed to slide for a few years to the point that embarrassing players were getting regular starts without people realising until it was too late.

I say this cos it seems to me like Liverpool are doing this but at a higher speed. Seriously I look at the history of Liverpool and some of the greats they've had and also the way the squad has been improving again these last few years and then players like Skrtel, Lucas, Babel and El Zhar are in the team and it's just really weird cos it doesn't FEEL like they're Liverpool players to me. Have good signings been replaced with lower quality signings? You can add Pennant to that as well and no doubt you'll add Keane who went from scoring loads of goals in the best strikeforce in England for two seasons to failing miserably up north.

[therockbox]

I don't think you can add Skrtel into that list, because he's been quality. It seems like people saw him in his debut against Havant & Waterlooville where he was shaky (although he wasn't the only one) and have decided that he's not good enough, regardless of the fact that over the course of the last 12 months or so he's probably been our best defender.

I wouldn't say good signings have been replaced with worse ones, we have a few players that are first choices (Kuyt, Carragher, Arbeloa, Riera) that, really, are squad players at best. It's not like we haven't tried to rectify that though. Instead of Kuyt or Arbeloa we could have had Alves. Instead of Riera we could have had Simao. Instead of Carragher we should have Agger and Skrtel, but I think if Rafa dared to drop Carragher now he'd be strung up from the nearest lamppost. One of Rafa's main problems has been the inability to bring in the players he wants. Pennant was a third choice that summer but we were stuck with him because the board and/or Rick Parry refused to sanction the deal. I know people say "Rafa should have spent £20m on one player instead of buying loads of average ones..", but ignoring the fact that this is incredibly short sighted, a lot of the time the board wouldn't let him spend that much money on one player. They'd seen what Houllier had done, spending ridiculous amounts on Diouf, Cheyrou, Diao etc. and decided that Rafa might do the same, so they wouldn't let him buy one marquee player every summer - although like I said, don't think he would have anyway, because it's incredibly short sighted.

I know I joke about Keane being shit, but I think the reason he was never going to succeed at Liverpool was because he didn't have the right mentality or attitude to play at a top four club, that is also expected to get through to the last 16 in the Champions League, as well as have a decent run in both cup competitions. Firstly he had to be rotated, but every time he was substituted he took it as a personal insult. His attitude stunk, and when he was being brought off after 60-70 mins he'd very rarely done anything during the game to suggest that he was going to score if left on. He also never seemed to grasp the idea of tactics, in his first game against Sunderland I can remember him twice almost tackling Torres when he was inside the box because he was running into the same areas as Torres and Gerrard. At first everyone put it down to being in a new team, but it kept on happening. He'd end up in the same areas as Gerrard, and even when he was playing up front on his own he'd still somehow contrive to get in Gerrard or Kuyt's way.

I'd say Liverpool's squad is fine. Our first 11 isn't. It sounds stupid but if we could add two match winners into the first 11 then we'd probably be around 12 points better off this season already. Obviously it hasn't helped that our two best players have both missed a fair amount of time injured. Gerrard and Torres were one of the best striking partnerships in England last season, but this year they've barely been on the pitch.

[Matt]

Liverpool's squad really isn't good enough. At least not in my opinion. Just compare it to Man Utd's.

Assuming (Van de Sar, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Rafael, Hargreaves, Carrick, Park, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Rooney) is their first 11 - which, give or take in the midfield - is about right, they have the following as a back up 11:

Foster

Neville

Fabio

O'Shea

Evans

Scholes

Fletcher

Giggs

Nani

Tevez

Wellbeck

And that's still not including Anderson, Kuszczack, Tosic with youngsters like Gibson, Campbell (when he comes back) and Possebon waiting in the wings.

Liverpool on the other hand have N'Gog, El Zhar and Aurelio - who really don't compare.

[therockbox]

Aurelio's fine, his problem is that he's made of glass. And like I said, our squad wouldn't look so bad if we had more quality in the first 11. The problem is we've players that should just be squad players as first choices. Also, unlike United, Rafa hasn't had the benefit of an academy that produces half decent players. Whilst they've brought through the likes of O'Shea, Wes Brown, Darren Fletcher, Johnny Evans, Welbeck and so on, leaving more money for first choice players, we've had to go out and buy utility players because our academy has been shit for a decade.

[britneyspearsisgod]

That has been Liverpool's biggest weakness - past their first squad, they don't really have anyone who can help replace their top stars. I agree with therockbox - if they could have added one or two quality players into the team, they would be in a much stronger position to challenge for the title. As it is, they were somewhat lucky it took Man Utd a while to make their challenge for the title.

I mean, anything can happen now until the end of the season. But, it's extremely tight. But, ultimately, while Liverpool have a squad to play with, they don't have the quality necessary to win the title. They're all similar levels, but one level down from Man Utd in some respects.

Ultimately, it's the same situation Chelsea might find themselves in - they bought a big star or two, but the depth lacks somewhat the further you go down. In Chelsea's case, it's the youngsters - they haven't had the strongest of young kids.

I said Liverpool would win the league this year based more on luck than skill and I hope for their sake that will ring true.

[R.W.]

Yay for being out of the relegation zone!

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Yay for Hull being on a horrible run.