Official Premiership 2008/09 thread

[Hobo]

I think too much is made of Gerrard. Its any lack of Xabi Alonso this season that's cost Liverpool. And today we were unlucky not to win without our real main midfield player. For me Lucas doesn't cut it at all. I was disappointed by Babel today as well who seemingly spurned crossing chances to cut in.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

Liverpool should do everything in their power to bring in David Villa.

Couldn't agree more. Don;'t care what Liverpool fans disagree, this is exactly what they need. You can go on all week about them needing wingers and so on, yet they need a fucking striker right now. When Torres is injured, they're at risk. Villa/Torres is a dream strike force and I still don't get why Rafa isn't bothering to pursuit this.

Oh and if you want to sell Gerrard, I'd take him any day of the week. Your best player and without him, you'd be struggling to finish in a Champions League place. He's got an ego? He'd fucking die for Liverpool FC.

[therockbox]

Liverpool should do everything in their power to bring in David Villa.

Couldn't agree more. Don;'t care what Liverpool fans disagree, this is exactly what they need. You can go on all week about them needing wingers and so on, yet they need a fucking striker right now. When Torres is injured, they're at risk. Villa/Torres is a dream strike force and I still don't get why Rafa isn't bothering to pursuit this.

Fucking hell, you really think we haven't gone after Villa because Rafa can't be arsed? How about the fact it would cost upwards of £30m to get him from Valencia? In fact, given that Man City are interested in him you can probably whack that up to £50m straight away just to compete with them.

Oh and if you want to sell Gerrard, I'd take him any day of the week. Your best player and without him, you'd be struggling to finish in a Champions League place. He's got an ego? He'd fucking die for Liverpool FC.

But only if he's the centre of attention. Play him on the right and he'll run crying to the papers just like he did last time Rafa dared to take him out of the middle.

[Grounded Wingman]

Interesting thing is that it was widely reported that David Villa was available for £25m just prior to Euro 2008, so Liverpool could have potentially got him for just less than £5m more than what was paid for Keane.

Now, I reckon if he leaves Valencia it'll be for Barcelona or Madrid.

Shame, because he plays well enough with Torres and is just as good a striker.

[therockbox]

Interesting thing is that it was widely reported that David Villa was available for £25m just prior to Euro 2008, so Liverpool could have potentially got him for just less than £5m more than what was paid for Keane.

Now, I reckon if he leaves Valencia it'll be for Barcelona or Madrid.

Shame, because he plays well enough with Torres and is just as good a striker.

If we signed Villa it would mean we'd have to go 4-4-2, which would mean Gerrard either needs to play on the right (which he wouldn't stand for) or play him in the centre of midfield - which he's proved time and time again at club and international level he's incapable of doing. Look at all the partnerships that have been tried with Gerrard in the middle - Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Lampard and so on, he just doesn't suit a two man midfield. Playing him in the middle worked (for Gerrard's reputation, not for Liverpool's success) under Houllier because he was the closest thing you'll come to a one man team playing at the top level.

Problem is in a team that wants to be challenging for the League (and World Cup/European Championships) his positional indiscipline at need to be the hero means that playing him in a 4-4-2 is a non-starter. The only formation that gets the best out of Gerrard AND allows the rest of the team to function independently of him is the 4-2-3-1, which we'd need to change if we signed Villa. Unless people are seriously suggesting we buy Villa and use him as backup only.

[alldaws1]

Nah, Torres would be the back-up, surely he's used to coming off the bench by now?

[Matt]

To be fair, given your lack of proper wingers (sans Riera who hasn't been overly impressive anyway in what I've seen of him) you could very easily play a diamond formation that gives Alonso + one other midfielder license to drift out whilst Mascherano holds with Gerrard still playing behind the front two.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

Interesting thing is that it was widely reported that David Villa was available for £25m just prior to Euro 2008, so Liverpool could have potentially got him for just less than £5m more than what was paid for Keane.

Now, I reckon if he leaves Valencia it'll be for Barcelona or Madrid.

Shame, because he plays well enough with Torres and is just as good a striker.

If we signed Villa it would mean we'd have to go 4-4-2, which would mean Gerrard either needs to play on the right (which he wouldn't stand for) or play him in the centre of midfield - which he's proved time and time again at club and international level he's incapable of doing. Look at all the partnerships that have been tried with Gerrard in the middle - Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Lampard and so on, he just doesn't suit a two man midfield. Playing him in the middle worked (for Gerrard's reputation, not for Liverpool's success) under Houllier because he was the closest thing you'll come to a one man team playing at the top level.

Problem is in a team that wants to be challenging for the League (and World Cup/European Championships) his positional indiscipline at need to be the hero means that playing him in a 4-4-2 is a non-starter. The only formation that gets the best out of Gerrard AND allows the rest of the team to function independently of him is the 4-2-3-1, which we'd need to change if we signed Villa. Unless people are seriously suggesting we buy Villa and use him as backup only.

It's funny because I don't agree with a thing you say about Gerrard. Fact is that Liverpool would of crumbled much more quickly without him. I don't think it matters where he fucking plays, because he's always putting in non stop amazing performances. Of course you'll tell me I'm wrong. I don't get the argument that Gerrard cant play in the middle. I'm still in disbelief that there's actually numerous Liverpool fans that put him down, I find it laughable in all honesty. Sometimes I wish he'd leave Liverpool to make people like you realise how much you need him and how important he actually is.

And in reality, Liverpool clearly didn't try nowhere near hard enough to get Villa from the looks of things. It's clear that City don't get everyone they want either and I cant see why Villa would ever pick them over Liverpool. You can splash out enough cash on Keane and shit all over him, but you cant stump up a bit extra for a player that could potentially give you that it of extra fire power you need to win the league?

[therockbox]

It's funny because I don't agree with a thing you say about Gerrard. Fact is that Liverpool would of crumbled much more quickly without him. I don't think it matters where he fucking plays, because he's always putting in non stop amazing performances.

I'm sorry, but you haven't been watching him all of the time then. There have been plenty of games (not just this season) where he's been poor and as responsible for us not winning as anybody. And if you seriously think he ALWAYS putting in amazing performances then you must be blind. He doesn't.

Of course you'll tell me I'm wrong.

You're right there - because you are.

I don't get the argument that Gerrard cant play in the middle.

Really? Have you not watched him play in the middle, ever? Have you ever wondered why whether it's for Liverpool or England, regardless of who the other player in the middle is, he very rarely excels when playing in central midfield? I'm sure you're going to cite Istanbul as an example now - but he only had an impact on that game after Hamann had been brought on and Gerrard had been moved forward and essentially given a free role. In the first half he was completely humiliated by Kaka and the rest of the Milan midfield.

Sometimes I wish he'd leave Liverpool to make people like you realise how much you need him and how important he actually is.

I'm well aware of how important he is, thanks, especially since Rafa converted him to an Attacking Midfielder and removed the shackles of trying to play as a CM.

And in reality, Liverpool clearly didn't try nowhere near hard enough to get Villa from the looks of things. It's clear that City don't get everyone they want either and I cant see why Villa would ever pick them over Liverpool. You can splash out enough cash on Keane and shit all over him, but you cant stump up a bit extra for a player that could potentially give you that it of extra fire power you need to win the league?

So where does that extra money come from? Fucking hell, I didn't realise that there were people out there that thought transfers in Football Manager were a realistic representation of real life. For arguments sake, lets say we spent £20m on Keane (we didn't - some of that was made up of add-ons that never got paid, but just to try and keep it simple I'll ignore that). Villa would have cost £25m - where does that extra £5m come from? And before you suggest not buying Dossena or Riera - we needed both of those otherwise we'd have had no left flank, and Villa would have been stuck on the left for the season.

I'd love to see Villa, Torres and Gerrard as part of our attack, but realistically it's not going to happen. Villa would cost too much, and signing him would mean breaking up a Torres/Gerrard partnership that was as lethal as any last season. The problem is the players around those two - specially, the right hand side. Instead of spending £25m on Villa we'd be better off buying a top class right midfielder, because the middle is sorted with Gerrard and Torres.

[-A-]

Villa definitely seems like he's set his sights on a guaranteed starting spot at Real or Barcelona. He's rejected offers from both of them recently because with the likes of Eto'o and Raul still hanging around he's not going to get the opportunity to be the first choice striker. If he's rejecting offers from those two then he's not likely to go to another country to a team that until this season wasn't seriously challenging for the title. Of course, Liverpool have more Spanish players than Barce/Real...

[Crybaby Bunting]

Villa isn't going to cost much now, Valencia are in debts of over 400m euros and CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY THEIR OWN PLAYERS, give this a month or so and Villa might be able to quit the club for nothing (just like the Gretna situation a while back)

Valencia have made a huge mistake not taking up a bid from City for the player when they could, now their prized assets could turn out to be worthless, Silva would most likely follow.

[IAceI]

Poor Everton. Mikel Arteta is out for the season to add to their growing list of injury problems, it's a shame because he's the key that can unlock defences and I noticed that Everton didn't have that little spark needed to undo the Newcastle defence yesterday that Arteta would have given them.

I have a lot of time for Villa and Everton. Both teams with good managers with a reputation and a penchant for bringing in young English youngsters, not just signing them but also in their youth teams and it's something you have to admire. So hopefully Everton can keep up the points and finish 6th at least like they deserve. Everytime they get someone back, another goes down, or they get Jo on loan to help - then Arteta goes who would have been providing him the majority of the chances. Still, it's a chance to see their younger players like Rodwell. Hopefully someone tells Segunda Castillo to lower his shorts a bit though because I was sick of seeing his enormous thighs every time he had the ball.

[-A-]

Just seen exactly how the CL qualification is changing from next season:

Penultimate Qualifying Round:

Dynamo Moscow (Already qualified through Russian league)

Runners-up of Romanian Liga I 2008-09

Runners-up of Portuguese Liga 2008-09

Runners-up of Eredivisie 2008-09

Runners-up of Scottish Premier League 2008-09

Runners-up of Turkish Süper Lig 2008-09

Runners-up of Ukrainian Premier League 2008-09

Runners-up of Belgian First Division 2008-09

Playoff Group Winners of Super League Greece 2008-09

Runners-up of Czech Gambrinus liga 2008-09

Final Qualifying Round:

5 Winners from previous round

4th placed team of Premier League 2008–09

4th placed team of Spanish La Liga 2008–09

4th placed team of Serie A 2008–09

3rd placed team of Ligue 1 2008–09

3rd placed team of German Bundesliga 2008–09

There's no indication of seeding for the final qualifying round, so it's highly unlikely that all 5 of the teams that enter that round will qualify. This makes the difference between 3rd and 4th in the league far, far more important that the difference between 2nd and 3rd in previous years.

Edited February 23, 2009 by -A-

[Adam]

So, in terms of England, does that now mean the top three teams qualify automatically, fourth is in the 3rd Qualifying Round and 5th is in the Europa League?

[Matt]

So, in terms of England, does that now mean the top three teams qualify automatically, fourth is in the 3rd Qualifying Round and 5th is in the Europa League?

Yes. Basically, the changes are:

3 auto spots instead of 2.

No seeding in qualifiers.

UEFA cup has been renamed.

[alldaws1]

If only Kou were still around

Big win for Spurs tonight, not the best performance by any stretch of the imagination but the important thing was getting the three points. Woodgate took a nasty elbow from Corluka, a fair bit of blood spurting from above his eye. I think Ian Ashbee sucks so much he has to resort to fouling. He should have had about 6 yellow cards in that game.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

That win gives me a lot of faith for the future.

It's all very well getting up for the big games against Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea etc but we've been underperforming and losing to lower teams this season - our record against the so-called "Big four" is probably better than the bottom four I'd imagine.

Anyway Spurs went away and won a battling grubby affair against Hull. That's good news and if we can follow it up with a victory over Boro then I think we're all but saved.

EDIT: I've started looking up ABOVE Tottenham again now and not below. We're 3 points off nicey midtable and two wins off eighth place. A top half finish is definitely possible and that would be fantastic though anything above seventh is pretty much unlikely now.

Edited February 24, 2009 by ReneArtoisAteMyHamster

[The Future]

I personally think Tottenham are going to beat us in the Carling Cup final

[alldaws1]

I'm sure Gomes will gift you the winning goal at some point. Also with Campbell, Keane and Defoe all unable to play I can see us going 4-5-1 which didn't end well against United in the FA Cup. Toss Palacios into the cup-tied list as well.

[Lord Nibbler]

Plus, as Harry Redknapp's been complaining about, Spurs play on Thursday so he might have to chop and change.