2008/2009 Hockey Thread v2.0

[Clawson]

Grabner is 3 points lower but hes quicker so it works out well for me. Keep on running 4 lines with nobody over 18 minutes a game except for my top 4 d-men.

Need to unload White though, I got rid of him in 08 when Colorado wanted him for Wolski.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Clawson

[Gabriel]

Bwahahahahaha I just traded Mark Bell for Michael Grabner in NHL 09.

Mark Bell is always used as trade bait by me. He isn't awful and you can score with him, but I want more quick players and he is rated well enough that you can get someone decent for him.

He's doing nothing for me. I've got him on my top line with the Marlies, and he has one assist in eight games. Darryl Boyce, who I play on the fourth line because he's a non-contract player, has 3 goals and 4 assists over the same amount of games, and he plays less than half the minutes that Bell gets.

I'm not looking to make too many moves at all, but if someone offers me a deal, he's likely to go.

[Clawson]

Boyce is a contract player.

[Toe]

Also, am I the only one who thinks a lot of the defencemen in the league have underrated shots? I think Andrei Markov is one guy that should have a better shot. Zubov too. Kaberle should have a more accurate wrister too.

It figures. Toronto has some good offensive pressure and looks to be in control, then Anaheim scores. And they did it with bodies in front of the net and just getting a shot through traffic.

Also, since Antropov is the only guy who seems to have finish on this team, why wouldn't you put him with Grabovski and Hagman. They have been the best line so far but just can't seem to get it in.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Toe

[Gabriel]

Boyce is a contract player.

Not according to the dynasty I started after I snatched the roster update earlier this week.

If he keeps producing though, he will be soon. I'm not going to let someone just up and leave my team if they're one of my top guys.

Back to the real world though... the Leafs looked really good tonight, despite losing... and Calgary played much better. Unfortunately, we sacrificed our offensive output to play a better defensive game. They're doing a good job of addressing their problems, but they need to be careful not to let up on something else and create more potential problems.

[Toe]

I like that it looks like Antropov can produce without Mats Sundin playing with him.

Also, does it speak more about the Leafs getting better defensively or the woes of the Ducks that Anaheim didn't get a single shot in the third period?

Edited October 22, 2008 by Toe

[Toe]

People are making a fuss about taking Toskala out of the shootout last night.

Have you seen Toskala's shootout record? He is a fantastic goaltender, but just can't get it done in the shootout. He has already lost twice in shootouts this season, why not give CuJo the chance? I think that it was a decent move, and while it didn't work, it does tell Toskala that he needs to work on his shootout ability.

[Clawson]

He actually looked relieved to be taken out of for it last night.

[The Sultan of Swank]

Hey, what does anyone think of the idea of a second team in Toronto? I was reading about it in the papers today... I have to say I'm split on it. The idealistic side of me, would like to see diversity in Canadian teams, I'd be much happier with a team in Halifax, Quebec, Saskatoon or Winnipeg, really represent more of Canada rather than have 4 of 7 Canadian teams within 5 and a half hours driving distance of each other.

The realist side of me agrees completely with the idea, I mean if any city in Canada could support two teams it'd be Toronto. I know that nobody would bother with a second Montreal team, or at least not a ton of people. The corporate sponsors would be there, the fans that can't get to a Leafs game would go to the second team, it's the largest city in Canada, and it's proven to be a Sports city something that both Vancouver and Montreal have failed at... also, it'd be nice if Toronto had at least 1 competitive team I kid.

Also, playing NHL 09 lately has let me know that I'd be a horrible GM. I mortgaged the Canadiens entire future so I could score Nash and Iginla... lord only knows how I'll afford to keep them past this season.

[Gabriel]

I think if they decide to put a second team in Toronto, be it a moving franchise or an expansion team... that it should be placed in the Western Conference. It just makes sense business-wise, because then you'd have two different teams in the same city, playing two completely different schedules, which brings not only the Northeast division teams into Toronto three times a year, but also the Central division teams (probably), three times more, and the rest of the West, more than the Leafs get.

I'd prefer if one of the struggling teams moved... I mean, look at it... the current climate of the NHL has a handful of teams being FORCED to pay more in salary than they can afford, which makes it damn near impossible for them to make any money, and is going to have a really negative effect on a lot of teams in the near future.

I'm not sure how Nashville's financial situation is right now, but they are a team who were recently in a heap of trouble... and I think a team like that, being moved to Toronto (or pretty much anywhere in Canada), would be able to rebound greatly... start making money, and being able to spend more than the floor, without worrying about HAVING to spend a certain amount of money.

If it were to move anywhere other than Toronto, I'd want to take a look at Minor League and Major Junior attendance figures in Canadian cities to see which ones would be best suited to have an NHL club.

I know they've been thinking Kansas City and Las Vegas as potential team homes... but before we expand the league, they need to make sure that the current teams are all financially healthy... and I don't think that moving a team in trouble to an unproven hockey city is a good idea. If they're going to move anyone, they need to move them somewhere that we know is going to support the team better than where they are at. Toronto, Hamilton and Winnipeg would all be good choices for a team to migrate to.

[The Sultan of Swank]

I think Minor and Major Junior league attendance figures are a good barometer to see if a city is indeed a hockey city, but in a lot of places, it can be awfully misleading. I mean, there's less than 3,000 people a game to see the Montreal Juniors, but we put 21,273 in the Bell every night since 04.

If the team is going to be in Canada, I think that any city really that can find the corporate sponsors and has or is willing to renovate an arena will likely fill it anyways.

[Gabriel]

I think Minor and Major Junior league attendance figures are a good barometer to see if a city is indeed a hockey city, but in a lot of places, it can be awfully misleading. I mean, there's less than 3,000 people a game to see the Montreal Juniors, but we put 21,273 in the Bell every night since 04.

If the team is going to be in Canada, I think that any city really that can find the corporate sponsors and has or is willing to renovate an arena will likely fill it anyways.

I think Montreal's a bad example there, because they've had an NHL team for a century.

I'm talking about places like Saskatoon, or Hamilton... fuck it, even a place like Moose Jaw, Victoria, Halifax or wherever. It would have to be a city where there isn't an NHL team already... because those are the ones where junior/minor league teams are getting great attendance figures.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I will take this opportunity to point out that Kitchener's attendance only averages 6700 or so a game because we only have that many seats.

[Gabriel]

Ron Wilson has scratched Jason Blake for tonight's game against the Bruins.

Good move? I think so.

Blake, in the right system, has the potential to be a 25-goal guy... but he's not producing on a team where he should be a first line winger, and he's a defensive liability. He skates around with the puck too much instead of just getting it to the net, he hasn't had the hustle necessary to backcheck well, and he's making far too many mistakes.

I didn't like the move to bring him in for last season, and I still don't like that he's on the team. If they can find a way to ship him out, do it as soon as possible...before his stock drops even more and you can't even get an undrafted prospect from someone for him.

[The Sultan of Swank]

I'd say that his stock has already dropped significantly from when Toronto got him, which means nobody wants his salary(5 Mil?) for 15-20 goals a season. He had that 40 goal year, and a couple real good years before that, but he just can't seem to get it together in Toronto... if they really want him out they can waive him and hope somebody claims him, or package him to another team that's under or near the cap floor.

[RoyWill Rumble]

Honestly, a second team in Toronto would be stupid. Stupidstupidstupid. Would it make money? To a degree, but the Leafs are THE team in Toronto and the Toronto area. Even if the team was in the Western conference, it just wouldn't be worth it. The team would not be able to get any kind of fanbase in Toronto. Would they sell out games? Probably, just because Leafs games are always sold out already, but there would not be a solid fanbase to build around. Honestly, right now there is no viable hockey market in Canada. I'm sorry to say, but it's not going to happen until a city can build a bigger arena. Winnipeg would have a chance if they built the MTS (I believe that's the name) Center to be bigger. Same situation in Quebec City. Plus, both of those cities failed. The Maritimes is just a logistics problem waiting to happen, and Saskatchewan has the whole issue with a rink. Plus, I question people being able to get to games. BC's a maybe-ish, but there's not many other big cities aside from Vancover. Victoria, sure, but I just don't think they'd be able to build up a fanbase either.

They had a chance with Hamilton, even if I still think that would have bombed because of its proximity to Toronto, but it fell through.

Also, I don't think that major junior hockey attendance is a good barometer for being able to support an NHL team. A lot of towns that have major junior hockey teams are just that, towns. They're not cities. They don't have a big enough economy or population to realistically support an NHL team. Moose Jaw? No. Sorry, there's just not a big enough population. Same problem with Red Deer. Victoria's a maybe, but I think that'd hurt the Canucks in the long run. Plus, major junior hockey fans, the diehards at least, are a totally different breed from NHL fans. If an NHL team comes to town, which it won't, major junior hockey will die. The reason major junior hockey can thrive in Canada is because these towns just are not big enough to support an NHL or possibly AHL team, but they still need their local hockey fix. They're like a fucking cult. Sure, they'd love an NHL team in Red Deer or St. John's, or Hull, or whatever, but once again, they just don't have the population, economy, or means to build a rink that's gonna seat 20,000 people, much less 20,000 people every single game. Honestly, a lot of places in the CHL struggle to even fill their 5,000 seat arenas to capacity. There's a big jump from 5,000 a game to 20,000 or 18,000 a game, guaranteed almost every single night.

So, you've got a problem right there. Where major junior hockey thrives in Canada is in TOWNS, or SMALL CITIES like Kingston, Red Deer, Hull, Chicoutimi, etc. These places are not major hubs, and an NHL team could only thrive in a major hub.

Any major city that has a major junior team also has an NHL team, to be honest. Vancouver has the Giants and Canucks, Calgary has the Hitmen and Flames, I forget if Edmonton has anyone, but they have the Oilers anyway (fuck, they may have an Edmonton team and I just forget anyway), Toronto has Niagara, along with the Majors and the Leafs, and Ottawa has the 67s and the Sens. Plus, I believe Montreal has a team now too along with the Habs. The only major Canadian city that has a CHL team without an NHL team is Regina, and I guess the Rebels in Manitoba. Well, the Jets failed and the MTS Center was just rebuilt for the AHL Moose (who would suffer if Winnipeg got an NHL team again) and I just don't think Saskatchewan is a viable place for an NHL team.

Sorry, but right now a new team in Canada is just NOT going to happen. Maybe in five or ten years? Maybe. Right now though, no. The Preds' financial issues are somewhat worked out from what I know and I honestly don't see Bettman having any interest in expanding the league into Canada again. This country is not starved for NHL hockey, and every province is represented. Sorry, but Manitoba had its chance with the Jets and I've already spoke numerous times about Saskatchewan.

Plus, on top of that, if the NHL is going to expand or move any franchises, it will be to Europe. Bettman has been strongly considering it. It's not gonna happen right away obviously, but it's been why the NHL has been having games in Europe. They're trying to see if it's a viable option to expand into Europe. I forget when it was, but I read an article on it recently. I'm too 'arsed' as one might say to find the link, though.

[Guest Mr. Pumpkin Head]

Honestly, a second team in Toronto would be stupid. Stupidstupidstupid. Would it make money? To a degree, but the Leafs are THE team in Toronto and the Toronto area.

Some owners would rather win games than make money. Just saying.

The team would not be able to get any kind of fanbase in Toronto.

They would if they were good. Look at the Argos in the Rocket Ismail era, the Jays in the early 90s, the Raptors in the early 00s, the Rock whenever the fuck they were popular. They wouldn't be able to sustain a Leafs-level fanbase forever, but they could sell out every game easily enough.

I'm sorry to say, but it's not going to happen until a city can build a bigger arena.

And why would a city build an NHL-sized arena unless they knew they'd get an NHL team? A junior/AHL team won't be able to fill a 20,000 arena, and it's not like the NBA's headed to Winnipeg or Halifax anytime soon.

Winnipeg would have a chance if they built the MTS (I believe that's the name) Center to be bigger. Same situation in Quebec City. Plus, both of those cities failed.

But not for lack of fan support. With the salary cap in place, and the Canadian dollar still stronger than it was ten years ago, both these cities would be fine.

The Maritimes is just a logistics problem waiting to happen

...erm, how exactly? Halifax has an airport, and it's not like they'd have to navigate the St. Lawrence to canoe into town.

and Saskatchewan has the whole issue with a rink. Plus, I question people being able to get to games.

The Riders seem to do fine.

Also, I don't think that major junior hockey attendance is a good barometer for being able to support an NHL team. A lot of towns that have major junior hockey teams are just that, towns. They're not cities.

Kitchener metropolitan area has a population of over 450,000 (that number has probably grown since 2006). Factor in proximity to Toronto, Hamilton, London, etc., and you could easily sell out a big arena every night (as long as it was close to the 401).

I'll give you Red Deer, St. John's, etc, but Hull has the Ottawa Senators. (Hull also doesn't exist anymore, but whatever.)

Winnipeg, Southern Ontario, Quebec City. Those three markets could definitely support an NHL team right now. Halifax and Saskatoon (which you'd be amazed to learn nearly had the St. Louis Blues move there at one point) are maybes.

[NobBe Nobbs]

They would if they were good. Look at the Argos in the Rocket Ismail era, the Jays in the early 90s, the Raptors in the early 00s, the Rock whenever the fuck they were popular. They wouldn't be able to sustain a Leafs-level fanbase forever, but they could sell out every game easily enough.

Unless my idea of what hockey is is grossly off-base, those aren't hockey teams. Different sport = different fans = different fanbase.

[Guest Mr. Pumpkin Head]

Aside from the Leafs (who will sell out every game from now until eternity no matter what), Toronto fans gravitate to whatever team is perceived as 'cool' because they've got a winning season. The worst-case scenario for a second NHL team would be to be lumped in that group.

[Toe]

I just don't think the Leafs would want a team in their territory, and Buffalo would probably prefer any new team was far away from them. Placing the team outside of Toronto in Southern Ontario would be a good idea. As MPH said, Kitchener would be good because it is a big city surrounded by other big cities with a major highway and plenty of corporate support in the area. Guelph, Brantford and Hamilton are all rather close to Kitchener as well.

I think Kitchener would be a better place for a team. The only obstacle I would see would be building the arena, but if a team was awarded a doubt there would be any problems.