2008/2009 Hockey Thread v2.0

[Gabriel]

Too many GMs and Coaches are worried about ruining their players by putting the pressure on them right away. Sounds like a good idea, but the problem with that is, a lot of the time, you end up coddling them far too much.

Justin Pogge's development has been shit because of how afraid the Leafs have been to put him in the pressure situations.

I'm a firm believer in Trial by Fire. If the kid is good enough to be in the top 12 forwards, top 6 defensemen, or top 2 goalies (and they're not going to be in a throwaway spot on the roster), then give them that opportunity. Luke Schenn will benefit greatly from playing in the NHL this season. He's done all he can in junior, and the adjustments he's going to have to make from here on out are adjustments he will still have to make in a year or two, simply because of the massive difference between playing major junior and playing in the NHL.

Schenn has easily been one of the top 5 Maple Leafs this pre-season... they'd be making the same mistakes they made with Pogge, if they don't keep him.

[SeanDMan]

Schenn should at least get his eight free games.

[Guest Grapehead]

Schenn should at least get his eight free games.

Agreed... but I still don't think they should have him on the main roster this season.

As far as Pogge goes, they've been making somewhat the right choices, I'm a firm believer in taking your time with goalies. The great goalies will still be great if you let them shine at every level before the NHL. Look at guys like Pascal Leclaire, Rick Dipietro, Marc-Andre Fleury, all rushed into starting roles in the NHL and how long did it take them to show up? Years. Now look at a guy like Jonothan Bernier, clearly (in my opinion) better than any goalie on LA but they are taking their time with him, and next season he will be the undisputed starter in LA and he'll shine for it because LA will be prepared for him with a strong defensive corps next season.

Schenn has nobody half decent to play with, there's barely anyone on the Leafs roster I'd want mentoring the kid, and the team will only be losing. That's a confidence killer. Sure if the team was half decent, stood a chance of making the playoffs, I'd bring the kid in for the season, but without that possibility he's going to be disappointed.

[Gabriel]

When they drafted him, Justin Pogge was a surefire number one goalie... a guy to build around, and likely play 70 games a season in the NHL.

They haven't given him the opportunity to shine since then. Two years, and he's done little to nothing in the Leafs system. They even brought in Scott Clemmensen last year to play for the Marlies instead of giving Pogge the ball to run with.

Now, his confidence as a starter is shot, and he's just happy to be playing. That is NOT how you treat a guy with that kind of potential as a starting goaltender. They've handled his development horribly. I'm not saying he should have been in the NHL, but he damn well should have played 90% of the games in the AHL last season.

As for Bernier, he's another guy who I firmly believe would have been better off in the NHL than in Major Junior. Of course, he belongs in the AHL, getting used to the "big boys" style of play, but he wasn't old enough for that last season. I didn't see them doing any better with Bernier though, than with Labarbera last year. This year is different though... I figure splitting the games between the two would help both exponentially. Though, if Bernier can play in Manchester this season, I'd much prefer that.

Luke Schenn needs to play in the Mens leagues right now, and it just so happens that he's not old enough to play in the AHL... so that really only leaves the one option. Toronto should (and will be, according to TSN) give Schenn the games he can play before they have to make a decision... and if he doesn't look out of place, then look at the market for veteran defensemen. Rhett Warrener and Anders Eriksson were both placed on waivers today. Warrener might be someone who could help Schenn bring his game along.

[Clawson]

I have faith in Kubina mentoring Schenn.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I'm equally amazed that Tampa is carrying Mike Smith this year - he was a strong OHL-level goalie for Belleville last year, but my read on him was that he'd be lucky to do well in the AHL this year.

He also led the Leafs to a few seasons of mediocrity as a GM.

[Toe]

I'm equally amazed that Tampa is carrying Mike Smith this year - he was a strong OHL-level goalie for Belleville last year, but my read on him was that he'd be lucky to do well in the AHL this year.

He also led the Leafs to a few seasons of mediocrity as a GM.

Mike Smith has been in the league awhile and was actually pushing Turco for playing time when he was dealt.

Justin Pogge is still developing. He put up good stats last year and is expected to do better this season as the unquestionable #1. Last year, things came up about his attitude. It was said that he was walking around with a sense of entitlement, as if he was already the top goalie for the Leafs and that he felt like the AHL was beneath him. Those issues are gone - seeing Scott Clemmensen start ahead of you will do that for you.

Toronto traded for Raycroft and then Toskala to protect Pogge and allow him to develop slowly if need be. It looks like he could be ready to step up and play back-up next season.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

So this is yet another Mike Smith?

[Toe]

The goaltender in Tampa?

Mike Smith bio from TSN

[Clawson]

The goaltender in Tampa?

Mike Smith bio from TSN

Projected stats at 0-41 with a 2.01GAA for the year. Ouch.

[Toe]

Hey Clawson. Does anyone care at all that Mark Bell was placed on waivers? I thought he would actually try this season with all his personal problems behind him.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I retract my comment about Mike Smith. I was actually thinking about former-Leafs-boss-turned-significantly-younger-goalie Mike Murphy.

Although the Jays had a Mike Smith who sucked a few years ago as well.

[Clawson]

Hey Clawson. Does anyone care at all that Mark Bell was placed on waivers? I thought he would actually try this season with all his personal problems behind him.

I like Bell, I was reading another forum today with gys on it and he said he likes Bell. Sad to see him go but Johnny Mitchell should do a good job.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Are there any good hockey forums (general hockey, not team-specific) other than hfboards?

[Clawson]

Not that I know of.

[Toe]

Are there any good hockey forums (general hockey, not team-specific) other than hfboards?

I've only ever gone to the Leafs forums from their official site, and they totally blow. Almost everyone there is just retarded. All of my hockey opinions and news come from TSN and Sportsnet.

Oh, and Vancouver sent Krajicek and Simek to Tampa for Shane O'Brien and Ouellet.

My source.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Toe

[SeanDMan]

You say "other than" as if hfboards is a good forum.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

You say "other than" as if hfboards is a good forum.

Good as in "I'll go on it to kill time during a class in a computer lab", not "I'll go there when I'm at home".

[SeanDMan]

Makes sense, what with your chronic masturbatory habits, you don't have time to chat when you're at home.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

And yet here I am.