NFL 2008

[livid]

I think it's illogical to say that he would command less than that. He's one of, if not the, most athletically gifted players in the NFL and you're going to sit there and tell me that he's going to command the same trade value as an aging DT in Kris Jenkins? Or a lazy, inconsistent DT in Shaun Rogers? Hell, Corey Williams went for a 2nd rounder and as good as he's becoming, I would still put Peppers above him, value-wise. Peppers is worth more than a 3rd and a 5th so if someone were to get him for that, then they would be robbing the Panthers. There is NO way that he goes for anything less than a 2nd (and that's worst-case scenario for the Panthers) despite what you're saying.

Now...if Hall's going for a 2nd rounder (and I know they play different positions) but I can't imagine Hall commanding more value on the market than Peppers, especially with the emphasis on pass rushing now that the Giants won the Super Bowl with so many pass rushers.

Edited March 15, 2008 by UNKLE

[NobBe Nobbs]

If Hall plays anywhere up to the level we've seen him be able to play at, then that should be a good move for Oakland. I don't like them paying him yet more money, but hey. Good CB dupo ahoy.

[Cactus Drags]

Don't try and throw on the Raiders next year. However, feel free to run.

[livid]

Also, apparently the 49ers cut Darrell Jackson today so anybody (*cough* Bears *cough* ) looking for a decent receiver should look into him.

It's weird, I actually thought that in the Martz system, he could flourish since route running was supposed to be his MO, but apparently they thought differently. He'd probably be best used as a number two at most though.

Though something tells me he's going to be in Eagles green come next season.

[DMN in the House]

Ugh, thats the one I wanted the least. I don't know how they're going to pay him, and Nnamdi Asmougha, and Asmougha is the better player, not as physically gifted, but a better team player. I also think a second is too high for Hall, and wouldn't have made that deal.

Although, if they get Glenn Dorsey or Chris Long, then it all comes together and the Raiders are looking at 8-8 next year.

[Trey]

DMN, I really think that you're underestimating how good DeAngelo Hall is at CB. He is a lockdown defender and is what, 25 years old? If he's willing to sign a long contract with the Raiders, that's also a plus as lately, the Black Hole is nothing more then what that team has been stuck in. You aren't going to get a talent of Hall's caliber in the second round, and comparing the Moss trade is unfair.

When the Moss trade happened, no one wanted him for the most part. He was a selfish, me-first prima-donna who had quit on his team those two seasons. Being a Raiders fan, I would think you'd remember that.

[DMN in the House]

I'm not complaining about the trade, I'm just not sure if another 'me-first' player is really what the Raiders need, especially when they already have a very capable number one CB making Top 5 money as the franchise player. Hall is great, but he's not exactly a need on this team right now.

And I agree on Moss, but fans always want more than a players worth.

[alldaws1]

I think it's illogical to say that he would command less than that. He's one of, if not the, most athletically gifted players in the NFL and you're going to sit there and tell me that he's going to command the same trade value as an aging DT in Kris Jenkins? Or a lazy, inconsistent DT in Shaun Rogers? Hell, Corey Williams went for a 2nd rounder and as good as he's becoming, I would still put Peppers above him, value-wise. Peppers is worth more than a 3rd and a 5th so if someone were to get him for that, then they would be robbing the Panthers. There is NO way that he goes for anything less than a 2nd (and that's worst-case scenario for the Panthers) despite what you're saying.

I think you're getting mixed up. There's a difference between what the Panthers would let Peppers go for and what other teams would be willing to give up. I'd say no team is going to give up more than a 2nd round pick for him (and that's the highest I think anyone would be willing to go) based on last season's performance. The Panthers won't let him go for just that, though, because of his reputation pre-last season. That's why he won't go anywhere.

Also, apparently the 49ers cut Darrell Jackson today so anybody (*cough* Bears *cough* ) looking for a decent receiver should look into him.

Was that a joke? Darrell Jackson... decent receiver? >_>

[livid]

No, I'm not mixed up at all. I know the difference. What I'm mainly getting at is that Peppers is worth more than Jenkins, Rogers, Williams, et al and it would be ridiculous if he were to go for the same amount as those guys because besides one year of underachieving (which one may argue was bound to happen anyways given how underachieving that team is as a whole), the guy's been great since he came into the league.

And that I'd be willing to bet that there are teams that would be willing to part with a first round pick to acquire him...like say any team in need of a DE that's in the later half of the first round. Because really, who in this draft (besides maybe Gholston and Long) would you be able to get that could match his talent level?

But alas, it's all moot since he's not going anywhere.

And yeah...Jackson could be be a decent receiver, he's just kinda injury prone and suffers from drops. But he runs pretty good routes and he can bring veteran leadership to a team. Like I said, he's probably not a #1 but he can still be fairly decent.

Edited March 16, 2008 by UNKLE

[Trey]

If he's not a number 1, why would the Bears want him? The Bears are lacking a #1 and really, that's all when it comes to receivers. We have our burner in Hester, our possession in Booker, our slot in Davis, and a do-it-all in Bradley.

[livid]

...I was being sarcastic, pointing to our previous conversation about how I think they have nobody. (Y)

[alldaws1]

No, I'm not mixed up at all. I know the difference. What I'm mainly getting at is that Peppers is worth more than Jenkins, Rogers, Williams, et al and it would be ridiculous if he were to go for the same amount as those guys because besides one year of underachieving (which one may argue was bound to happen anyways given how underachieving that team is as a whole), the guy's been great since he came into the league.

But you're not going to give away a first round pick for Shawn Alexander because he was superb a couple of years ago. Same thing with Peppers, he's coming off of a poor season by his standards and just because he was as good as he was before last year doesn't mean you still give up as much as you would have when he was at the top of his game.

[livid]

Okay so he had one bad year and he's out of his prime now? Uhhh, players are allowed (though not encouraged) to have a bad year; it happens.

Whereas in the case of Shaun Alexander, he's playing a position that when you reach 30, you're considered run down and too old. It's quite obvious that Alexander is run down and isn't the same RB he used to be (especially when they had Hutchinson) and he's beginning to see more injuries. Not to mention that since 2005 his production has steadily gone downhill.

Peppers had one bad year, don't make it out to be something it isn't. He had a bad year on a bad team; that's it.

[alldaws1]

By prime, I'm talking about at his best. Last season was obviously not his best, yet you're still saying teams will give up as much as they would if he was playing like he was before last season!? Sure players can have a bad season but it does change their stock, it's not just going to stay as it was and ignore a bad season.

As for Alexander, following the year after his MVP year, when he slumped, would you have given up a first round pick for him because he was the MVP the year before, ignoring his slump and thinking he'll just return to his usual self the next year? I wouldn't have, I know that. Just because Peppers has been very good for a few years doesn't mean he's just going to return to form next season and any potential suitors have to take that into account.

[livid]

Again, there's a difference between Alexander and Peppers because of the positions they play.

Alexander plays RB, a position in which you're going to be considered too old the closer you get to 30. Not to mention that the following year, he was starting to show the signs of his age and how worn down he was (he got injured; the broken ankle). That's why I wouldn't give up a first round pick for him because I know that he was starting to wear down and it was obvious.

However, there's nothing indicating that Peppers is on the downside of his career. You may say that he is because he had one bad year but he isn't because he's not showing any signs of being worn down or anything (he missed 2 games last year but that's not that much and he'll only be 28 this year; still young for a DE).

There's nothing really indicating that he's not the same player, just that he underachieved last year.

I'll use the Redskins (or even the Broncos or Bucs) as an example. They need a pass rush right? Well, at their spot in the 1st round, who could they get that could match the talent level of Peppers? Nobody. That is why it's still logical to think that a team would be willing to part with a 1st round pick to get a guy like Peppers.

And again, especially since the Giants just won the Super Bowl, beating seemingly the unbeatable team in the Patriots, by using their pass rush. The NFL is a copy cat league and if a team has a chance to add a pass rusher like Peppers to their team, they'll take it even if it does cost them a 1st rounder. Because they know how talented Peppers is.

Edited March 16, 2008 by UNKLE

[DMN in the House]

The NFL is a 'what have you done for me lately' league. What Peppers did two years ago is far outweighed by how he performed this year. You seem to fail to understand that no one is going to spend a 1st rounder on a 28 year old DE thats had a bad year.

[livid]

That's inconclusive. You don't really know that a team wouldn't and I don't really know that a team would. This is all speculation so don't tell me I'm failing to realize something that you don't have solid proof of either.

And guys, we could do this forever. I think at this point we should just agree to disagree because we'll run around in circles if this continues any longer.

[Trey]

This is somewhat of a bump, but has anyone found a fairly good place or places to get mock drafts? I can't find anything that is halfway decent and with me not being a huge follower of college ball, I need some advice.

[NobBe Nobbs]

I have been getting mine from the CBS Sportsline site. They're not always great - one recent one had New England taking Ryan Clady with the seventh pick - but they're decent.

[Cactus Drags]

nfldraftcountdown.com

and whatever you do, do not listen to a word Don Banks says. Oh, and don't pay much attention to his mock drafts either.

Edited March 24, 2008 by Dragsy