NFL 2008

[naiwf]

Anyone who thinks that Rex Grossman is a championship caliber QB obviously hasn't seen him perform in big games since his career completion % is an abysmal 54.3% and he has a 31 to 33 TD/INT ratio. The guy is the definition of a mediocre QB. Any QB who starts a full season will have at least 3 or 4 monster games. It's the games that Rex LOSES almost singlehandedly that are more of an indictment of his skill set.

During the season he made it to the SB, look at some of the games he played. . .

In the "Dennis Green meltdown" game against Arizona he went 14/37 for 144 yds with 4 INT

In a 31-13 loss to Miami, 18/42 for 210 yds, TD, 3 INT

In a 17-13 loss to New England, 15/34 for 176 with 3 INT

In a 26-7 loss to Green Bay, 2/12 for 33 with 3 more INT.

In those 4 games he threw 13 of his 20 INT and pretty much handed their opponents the three games the Bears lost in the regular season. The Super Bowl was another "Sexy Rexy experience" with a 20/28 for 165 yds, TD and 3 turnover performance.

This year he pretty much did the same thing. . .

In a 14-3 loss to San Diego, 12 /23 for 145 yds, INT

In a 34-10 loss to Dallas, 15/32 for 195 and another 3 INT

Then he got benched because the season was already in shambles. If Rex plays like crap the Bears lose. With the defense aging and not being nearly as stout as they were in the '06 season it's even more pronounced. Eli's been HORRIBLE in plenty of games during his career but there are a handful of games that he essentially brought us back on the strength of his right arm. With the Giants' D improving and the running game not suffering from the loss of Tik-me Barber I don't see why he can't duplicate the success he had in the last 5 games of this year. He'll never be an MVP candidate but he doesn't lose nearly as many big games as Rex does. Let's keep in mind he drove the team down the field to win a SB against one of the greatest teams ever assembled, while Rex basically gave his brother his 1st championship.

[DMN in the House]

I don't understand the love for Grossman either, but then again, the Bears haven't had a decent QB since Jim McMahon.

[alldaws1]

If Rex plays like crap the Bears lose.

Nice way to contradict yourself there, quoting Rex's terrible stats in a game they won against Arizona and then coming out with that. They also made the Super Bowl that year, despite his mistakes and the massive criticism of his play.

You talk about Grossman not being a 'championship caliber QB' but please, introduce me to one person who thought Eli Manning would lead the Giants to a championship. Nobody predicted that, and nobody predicted Eli would improve his play like he did late in the season. All I said was that by watching Grossman's good performances, I think he could do that.

A lot rides on what you consider a 'championship caliber QB'. I don't consider Eli to be one (yes, despite the ring), all he did was avoid making mistakes. He didn't win the Super Bowl by lighting up the Pats D with his terrific throwing ability. Now consider Rex's last few games with the Bears last season when he was throwing fewer mistakes and making sensible throws. Hmm, sounds familiar. Bears D is as good as the Giants', special teams is better than anyone else's in the league, and the offense with a couple of tweaks as I've already said, is as good as the Giants'. You'd think with what NY did in 2007, people wouldn't so readily count players/teams out.

[naiwf]

The Arizona Cardinals losing that game is a statistical anomaly as was shown when they analyzed the game afterwards. They were +4 in the TO margin, +118 in yards gained, +~20 minutes in TOP and the Bears scored all 3 of their TDs on 2 fumble recoveries and a punt return. That outcome probably happens 1 time in every 10,000 games with those numbers if that often.

The Bears lost 4 games that year, Rex played horribly in all 4 games. 'nuff said.

Avoiding making mistakes aka being ahead in the turnover margin actually wins championships. Rex can't do that consistently. 'nuff said x2.

[Guest Uptown]

They just reported that Muhammad might return to the panthers

[alldaws1]

The Bears lost 4 games that year, Rex played horribly in all 4 games. 'nuff said.

Avoiding making mistakes aka being ahead in the turnover margin actually wins championships. Rex can't do that consistently. 'nuff said x2.

And Rex played superbly for the 15 others?

He played 5 games when he came back from being dropped and only threw one interception. I'd call that consistent.

[GhostMachine]

There are only three reasons I can see the Bears re-signing Grossman, even if its only for one year:

1. They're planning on upgrading their offense and becoming a 90% running team....with the 10% passing mostly being throwing downfield, Hail Marys, or trick plays where he hands off the ball to someone else who actually throws it.

2. Their GM or owner is mentally ill or has Alzheimer's.

3. He has incriminating evidence against someone high up in the Bears organization and blackmailed them into a new contract.

If they signed Grossman just because of what Briggs said, then quite frankly they should've just said fuck it and let Briggs go right then and there. You don't re-sign one shit player who is in a key position just to keep a good player happy.

And sorry, but by this point I doubt Grossman can "do an Eli". Eli had the ability but had to mature as a player, make some adjustments and gain some confidence. Grossman definitely needs the confidence but I think at this point its highly doubtful he even has the ability. When he doesn't fuck up, he's an average QB at best. Grossman probably has the respect

[naiwf]

The Bears lost 4 games that year, Rex played horribly in all 4 games. 'nuff said.

Avoiding making mistakes aka being ahead in the turnover margin actually wins championships. Rex can't do that consistently. 'nuff said x2.

And Rex played superbly for the 15 others?

He played 5 games when he came back from being dropped and only threw one interception. I'd call that consistent.

[alldaws1]

Meaningless games? They were 3-5 in the NFC and coming off their bye, they still had a good chance to make the Playoffs. I don't call that meaningless. And they obviously didn't lose them because of Rex because he was playing well enough.

Who cares about Eli's opponents last season? I'm suggesting what Rex could do next season with a couple of off-season acquisitons to bolster the offense, so you're accomplishing nothing by comparing their two streaks last season.

And I'm not missing any point, I know that in the past Rex has been more likely to cost his team games than win them, but that wasn't the case in those five games he played quite well in. But because of his reputation you don't care that he played better, you're hung up on him not being able to do what Eli did because of his previous mistakes, you can't seem to look past them. If he keeps playing sensibly and gets big help from the other areas of the team (which is what Eli did, played sensibly, he wasn't lights-out superb or anything) he too could overcome his past mistakes, again like Eli.

[Meacon Keaton]

Dude, Eli has always had the potential, he just had to come into his own. You can keep making arguments all you want for Grossman, but the guy will be nothing more than just a mediocre quarterback. Yes, he has good games, but then he comes right back with games with 3, 4, or 5 turnovers all on his own.

[Evil Chase K]

The only important QB stats are completion percentage and TD to INT ratio. Everything else is meaningless and changes based on the system, although that can be said for completion percentage to a degree as well.

[alldaws1]

Dude, Eli has always had the potential, he just had to come into his own. You can keep making arguments all you want for Grossman, but the guy will be nothing more than just a mediocre quarterback. Yes, he has good games, but then he comes right back with games with 3, 4, or 5 turnovers all on his own.

I think Grossman has the potential to be a Super Bowl winning QB. Hell, he almost did win one. A couple of injury-plagued seasons limited the start to his career, we should realise he's only been able to play one full season so far. Eli's played more than that.

And where was his 3, 4 or 5 turnover game in his second stint as starting QB last season? Oh, there wasn't one.

[livid]

Ya' know, you arguing that he can't stay healthy doesn't help his case of being able to lead a team to a Super Bowl victory since he can't stay on the damn field. The fact that he has 1 full year in the 5 he's been in the league, speaks volumes. I wouldn't keep him simply for that fact, no matter how talented he is.

And when he is on the field, he turns the ball over. Yes, he's had good games, but you know else has had good games? Joey Harrington, David Carr, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, hell I could name a million QB's that have had good games.

But all of it means jack shit if you continually put your team in bad spots by your poor decision making, which is what Grossman does. That and get hurt. (Y)

[Meacon Keaton]

Dude, Eli has always had the potential, he just had to come into his own. You can keep making arguments all you want for Grossman, but the guy will be nothing more than just a mediocre quarterback. Yes, he has good games, but then he comes right back with games with 3, 4, or 5 turnovers all on his own.

I think Grossman has the potential to be a Super Bowl winning QB. Hell, he almost did win one. A couple of injury-plagued seasons limited the start to his career, we should realise he's only been able to play one full season so far. Eli's played more than that.

And where was his 3, 4 or 5 turnover game in his second stint as starting QB last season? Oh, there wasn't one.

I clearly said the guy does have his good games. You're really starting to sound like a Patriot fan, though. You hold the games he does well in such high regards, that you don't seem to accept all the games he does horrible. He's an NFL quarterback, which means he isn't going to completely blow up everytime. He's not Ryan Leaf. However, over the last three years, he has been one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the league. He's amazingly inconsistent. And as Livid La Vida Loca said, you aren't helping your case mentioning how injury-prone the guy is.

[Cactus Drags]

Anyone who ever said they thought Eli was a championship calibre quarterback is a fucking liar. A lot of you seem to be comparing the time Eli and Rex have had and saying Rex's time is up, yet you don't seem to recall that two seasons were wiped out by injuries early on. Not every quarterback is an instant success, it can take years for them to emerge.

[Meacon Keaton]

But the argument can be made, for both Eli and Rex, that you don't need to be a championship calibre quarterback to win a championship. Not every quarterback to win the Super Bowl has been a Tom Brady, Joe Montana, or Terry Bradshaw. I, personally, had very high expectations for Eli coming out of college. I cut the guy a break, playing in New York, the toughest city to play in. I'm not going to say I predicted the Giants to win the Super Bowl, but I wouldn't have smacked someone across the face if they said that they would. It's the NFL, any team can reasonably win the Super Bowl. However, with the inconsistency of what we have all seen of Rex Grossman, he is just way too hit or miss, atleast in my opinion, to be the leader of my offense.

Edited February 26, 2008 by meacon99

[gunnar hendershow]

But the argument can be made, for both Eli and Rex, that you don't need to be a championship calibre quarterback to win a championship. Not every quarterback to win the Super Bowl has been a Tom Brady, Joe Montana, or Terry Bradshaw. I, personally, had very high expectations for Eli coming out of college. I cut the guy a break, playing in New York, the toughest city to play in. I'm not going to say I predicted the Giants to win the Super Bowl, but I wouldn't have smacked someone across the face if they said that they would. It's the NFL, any team can reasonably win the Super Bowl. However, with the inconsistency of what we have all seen of Rex Grossman, he is just way too hit or miss, atleast in my opinion, to be the leader of my offense.

Use Trent Dilfer as an example. He wasn't a great QB, and did make mistakes. But the one thing he did was go out there knowing how not to risk blowing a game away. If Rex could learn how to do that, to not take stupid risks and instead run what you know, when a game is close then his defense could surely shut the door and give them the win.

[Maxx]

I still wouldn't describe Eli as a championship caliber QB. Yes, he won one, but so has Trent Dilfer and we wouldn't call him championship caliber. I've earned a margin of respect for Eli based on his playoff performance, but the guy needs to start performing like that for a whole season to be considered championship caliber. Eli needs to start winning consistently in home games, otherwise they'll never clinch their division and always end up as a wild card, and I don't care what team it is, you can't go from wild card to superbowl year after year.

[Evil Chase K]

Well Terry Bradshaw, for as much as I love him for everything he did for the Steelers, and as great as he was, only threw one more TD than he did INTs for his entire career. So obviously you can win Super Bowls throwing INTs, if you have arguably the greatest defense of all-time around you.

[alldaws1]

Dude, Eli has always had the potential, he just had to come into his own. You can keep making arguments all you want for Grossman, but the guy will be nothing more than just a mediocre quarterback. Yes, he has good games, but then he comes right back with games with 3, 4, or 5 turnovers all on his own.

I think Grossman has the potential to be a Super Bowl winning QB. Hell, he almost did win one. A couple of injury-plagued seasons limited the start to his career, we should realise he's only been able to play one full season so far. Eli's played more than that.

And where was his 3, 4 or 5 turnover game in his second stint as starting QB last season? Oh, there wasn't one.

I clearly said the guy does have his good games. You're really starting to sound like a Patriot fan, though. You hold the games he does well in such high regards, that you don't seem to accept all the games he does horrible. He's an NFL quarterback, which means he isn't going to completely blow up everytime. He's not Ryan Leaf. However, over the last three years, he has been one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the league. He's amazingly inconsistent. And as Livid La Vida Loca said, you aren't helping your case mentioning how injury-prone the guy is.

Read my posts please. I know you said he has his good games, my reply was on about you saying he comes back with a 3, 4 or 5 turnover game after those good games, which he didn't last season.

The whole 'Patriot fan' thing might work if I were actually a Bears fan, but I'm not. This isn't bias for someone on my own team. And I've mentioned his bad games and inconsistencies several times if you'd bother to read my previous posts. My argument is for his potential, not his past.

And for me, his injury problems could be a major reason for his past mistakes. The point I'm making about them is if he can stay healthy for a year or two in a row, I think he could be what Eli was for the Giants in 2007.

Edited February 26, 2008 by dwsnuk