Final Fantasy

[TKz]

I was hugely disappointed with FFXII, but I think this time my expectations have been a bit lowered and I'm a little more well informed of what to expect (where as last time I was expecting better than X, which I love, which is not what I felt I got). I'm quite glad it's gotten some negative reviews, as I'd rather go in not knowing what to expect and wondering if it'll be all that, than I would going in hearing that it's fantastic, only to be disappointed once it arrives.

What I don't understand about the complaints for lack of control is there's two key ones that I can tell - 1) How linear the first 30 hours is and 2) The fact you can't pick your own team until about 25 hours. I mean, that's hardly new to FF is it? It seems to me that you already have your full team at the start of the game, which is something you've never really had before. (To my memory, I'm almost definitely forgetting a few FF's. Probably.) I don't have a problem having to control CPU selected parties, as I don't see how that's any different to in FFVII, when you spend pretty much the first 10 hours or so with just Cloud, Aeries, Barrett and Tifa. And it's not like it's a new thing for it to take a while for an FF to truly open up. I mean, in FFX it was pretty much a set path for you until you got the airship. Temple to Temple to Temple. I get the feeling that it'll probably be more akin to that than anything else. Though 30 hours is a lot, I'm sure at least some of the linear thing is just being overhyped.

I suppose it's a little silly to try and defend a game I haven't even played yet, but I have faith that Square will please the fans with this installment. My expectation (for what my own experience will be) is that it'll be a great game, but perhaps not one that I'll hold on the same level as FFX or FFVIII.

edit: And yeah, Clawson, I'm a little pissed too about that, it seems like that's the only thing this 'whole game' worth of stuff they took out could be. If it is, I'd hope we at least get the chance to get it in DLC. Otherwise why both making it and taking it out?

[Clawson]

The way I see the reviews is that its scoring insanely high in Japan and medicore in the West. Final Fantasys had hardcore JRPGs so if Japan is loving it then I am really pumped for it. I don't mind it being linear because most of them are that way, but with the option to run on a map and end up in a side quest. It's not like you can do the story in any way you choose ala Dragon Age.

[TKz]

The way I see the reviews is that its scoring insanely high in Japan and medicore in the West. Final Fantasys had hardcore JRPGs so if Japan is loving it then I am really pumped for it. I don't mind it being linear because most of them are that way, but with the option to run on a map and end up in a side quest. It's not like you can do the story in any way you choose ala Dragon Age.

I loved Dragon Age, but I don't think I'd want that for FF to be fair. It made the plot feel a bit less important, which I don't think would work for FF. It worked greatly for DAO and Oblivion though.

[Clawson]

Exactly, and that seems to be a lot of the criticism towards the game. I think linear works well for Final Fantasy because you need that sense of urgency. I mean imagine if in IX somebody came up to you and was "holy shit our city is being attacked!" and you were all like "oh no!!! Let me go discover Dagger's true heritage and I'll get back to you in a week."

It would be shit.

[TKz]

Yeah, a lot of the urgency in some of the story disappeared because of that style for Dragon Age, which isn't something FF can really afford. Like for example, when you're playing the Redcliffe mission... you can pretty much leave halfway through, save the Dalish elves and complete all the sidequests in Ostagar before coming back, and apparently everything in the town went on hold until you returned.

From what I understand of the story as well is that you basically spend the first half the game on the run from the military, so it wouldn't make much sense for you to be able to run around wherever you like. My biggest concern right now is this news that there doesn't seem to be any clear villain. There needs to be atleast like an avatar of the big bad to fight and interact with through out the game, because otherwise you end up with FFIX syndrome for a final boss, where you don't have much a clue who the hell you're fighting.

Unless they go the way of FFX and have you fight the 'gods' I've read about, but even then I'd prefer someone that at least starts as a humanoid to fight, that you can talk to throughout the game. The Sauron-Presence style villains always leave me feeling a little blah with the endings, because it's like... well, you didn't really beat them themselves did you?

[Clawson]

Yeah linear games make sense if you're running from something or to something. I think the lack of a world map has thrown people off from the fact that pretty much every Final Fantasy is that way.

Though I am tempted to watch The Spoony Experiment VIII again for shits and giggles right now.

[TKz]

The FFVIII review is the only thing of Spoonys I really enjoy. (apart from the SWAT Playthrough) Dr. Insano and the ending is just beautiful, beautiful stuff. I will admit though, I miss the world map. Hopefully they make it work in this instalment, like they did in FFX. Though even then, I'd have liked a few decent reasons to return to certain areas... it was pretty much just go back to the calm lands and visit each city once to kill a Dark Aeon. But then, FFX kind of got away with that thanks to the fact they ended up giving us a sequel. (which I loveeee. I need to buy FFX-2 again before it gets rare.)

[Clawson]

Yeah I would love the return of the world maps. It's one of my favourite parts about going back to the PS1 games.

[Ruki]

I want world maps and towns

[LL!]

You also want FFXIII which everyone already has.

[tenaciousg]

I just wanna say really quick how much I hate the way IGN does reviews. If you're gonna have scores for individual pieces of the game, make the combined score an average. The actual score is a clean 9.0, rather than the 8.3 "not an average" score they gave it.

It's not just a gripe with FFXIII; I just don't see why they review the sound, graphics, replay value, etcetera, without averaging the scores.

[Benji]

But an average is not a genuine rating of how the whole package. Personally, I've always preferred Famitsu's rating system, basing it on several peoples opinions rather than just ones always seemed a much more sensible way to rate a game to me.

[stokeriño]

A straight average would be flawed anyway. It would give undue weight to things like Sound which, important though they are in their own way, should not be treated equally to more central gameplay aspects when coming to a final verdict.

[badotori]

Yeah linear games make sense if you're running from something or to something. I think the lack of a world map has thrown people off from the fact that pretty much every Final Fantasy is that way.

This is the main point that most of the reviews I've read so far - that the story is presented in this unadorned tunnel with no exits. You're simply moving forward in order to access the next cut-scene and I could understand how this would turn off most modern RPG fans.

But, I do agree with you, Clawson, what it does is instil a little bit of urgency into the piece. At the day, your party are being actively chased by the fuzz for the first 25-30 hours of the game by the looks of it - buggering off to find chocobos (there better be chocobos ) would wrench you away from that situation pretty noticeably.

All I'm hoping is that this dreaded linearity leads to Square giving us a set of well-developed, entertaining characters, unlike FFXII where even your main character became superfluous after a while. From the sounds of it, your party is pre-determined for about the first twenty hours of play which, to me, allows Square to exercise better control over the information they're able to give about the characters. Personally, when it comes to a JRPG, I'll take an expansive narrative WITH well-developed and interesting characters over gratuitous creative freedom any day.

[Benji]

I've come to terms with the linearity because they've said it expands later, and there will almost definitely by DLC, especially since Square-Enix are always doing "International" releases in Japan with extra content, now the world has better access to the internet and the platform networks, it'll make extra content easier.

Also, I think I'll like it being linear, too many games these days are trying to be open world for the sake of being open world from the start, now Final Fantasy is one I'll always prefer having a world map that blocked you off in simple but clever ways, but so long as the game works and entertains, that's all I can ask of any company. And as far as FF goes, they always tell great stories (yes, they rip off Star Wars continually, but if you're going to rip off a story, rip off a good one), so if it means getting a concentrated story and character development rather than "WAAA I'M VAAN I WANNA' BE A SKY PIRATE AND I AM TOTALLY POINTLESS TO ANY PART OF THE STORY", then I'm all for it.

[Clawson]

The respective stories presented in Final Fantasy I–X drive the player on a path between towns and dungeons, all leading to the inevitable resolutions. There are sidequests, sure -- though they mostly offer metaphysical bonuses that will aid the player in conquering that conclusive boss fight. Final Fantasy XIII is different in that it exerts that linearity on the player in a much less transparent capacity.

If you've got the endurance required to suffer the Final Fantasy XIII's radically unbalanced pacing, there are 30 or so truly wonderful hours of game to be played. It's unfortunate that XIII's plodding introduction requires so much from the player -- 15 hours and 30 minutes is, after all, enough time to play most other games to completion. Still, after viewing the satisfying, Leona Lewis-infused conclusion, I'm of the firm position that the end easily justifies the means.

From Joystiq

So it seems like an extremely good game if you can get past the first 15 hours. I don't think this should be a problem at all.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Clawson

[Kaney]

Yeah, the Joystiq review made me interested in it. Can someone explain to me what this is all about though, I keep hearing people say they removed stuff from the game, but I don't know what they're talking about. An entire games worth or something? Why did they do that? I'd guess something about time constraints/space issues but still. Haven't really been keeping up with the game to be honest >_>

[Rich]

According to art director Isamu Kamikokuryou, many additional areas that were functioning in an unreleased build, from Team Nora's secret base, to Lightning's home and even a zoo, were cut from the game owing to concerns about the game's length and volume.[64] Kamikokuryou additionally remarked that the volume of content cut was, in itself, enough to make another game.[64]

[Clawson]

At 60 hours already, I think my head would explode. I have trouble finishing them as it is.

[Kaney]

Holy shit. I'm still on disc three and have a pile of Ultima's junctioned to Squalls Strength attribute, and now his Renzokuken does at least 6000 damage per hit, for at least 5/6 hits a turn. I fought Bahamut at level 35 and killed him with two limit breaks. Is there any reason NOT to have him constantly yellow?