Premiership 2007/08

[IAceI]

The problem is his hand was in an area where it made a difference. If his hand was in front of his chest then to a degree I could see a point, because it would have hit him there anyways. But if he wasn't occupying that area with his hand the ball would have gone passed him and into the box - where anything could have happened.

It's not so much whether it was deliberate or not, it's more the fact that it influenced the flight of the ball. Anything could have happened had it gone into the mixer like it was destined too, and it was a good 6-7 foot from the ball being kicked to striking him on the hand.

Last week we had a similar decision, Higginbotham slid in and the ball clipped his arm. I've had Newcastle fans - well, one - say they didn't think it should have been given. But as I said, Owen was getting passed him and even though it was completely accidental it struck him on the arm and prevented Owen from continuing his move, so as such it was a stone wall penalty as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: All of Ferguson's post-match comments are just beginning to sound like the same noise to me. He's the best manager in the world, but he needs to fucking admit when a decision that goes against him may actually have been the right decision. It's no wonder so many Utd fans I know in person are deluded when they listen to him and take that as gospel.

Oh and Emmanuel Pogatetz is God.

Edited April 26, 2008 by IAceI

[alldaws1]

Will no doubt be a valuable asset to Tottenham and I think it sort of signals the departure of Berbatov in some ways.

How does the arrival of Modric signal a Berbatov departure in any way whatsoever? They're not the same position so it's not a threat to his place in the team, and surely Berbatov will want to stick around and play with a playmaker like Modric who will surely give Berbatov a better supply than he's getting now. I don't see that at all.

I hadn't seen this posted: Liverpool and Chelsea have revealed their new home kits for the new season:

More pictures & GK kit here.

More pictures & GK kit here.

[Sam]

The penalty wasn't a penalty. It was ball to hand and not hand to ball and there is the big difference in my opinion. Also if we're discussing the penalties of the match why was Ronaldo not given one for the way Ballack treated him the minute he came on the pitch. He was attacking him and holding him as the corner came in so that Ronaldo couldn't move at all. That was a stone wall penalty in my eyes. There wasn't any half of this, half a dozen of the other in that scenario it was all blocking by Ballack and the referee for missing that needs to be spoken to.

The ref also made some other stupid decisions and once again it's sad that a big game ends with us talking about referees/penalty decisions. They just seem to have been very below par this year and rather than blabbering on about respect the FA needs to sort out their so called "top officials" because they're constantly costing teams across the division matches with bad decisions.

[IAceI]

Because Modric probably isn't going to play in a flat four, will want to play in a more Aliaksandr Hleb off the striker role. I don't see Spurs keeping all their strikers this coming summer to be honest. I hope Berbatov stays around, I remember when I got him on a FM manager game years ago and I fell in love with him then. Him in the Premiership is fantastic.

But I see Modric playing an AM role and for whatever reason I just don't see Berbatov being around to see him play. That and I'm pretty much echoing and agreeing with the sentiments of Charlie Nicholas from Soccer Saturday this morning. Berbatov surely wants to play CL football, and this constant "We'll get it next year" vibe that seems to have been in effect at Spurs for a while now is probably beginning to give up.

So while there not the same position, I can see Modric meaning that a striker position is sacrificed when he arrives.

[alldaws1]

Spurs get rid of strikers? We've only got three! Getting rid of any of our strikers right now makes no sense whatsoever. And Berbatov will be around for at least one more season, he's stated how much he thinks Ramos is a 'perfect' fit for the job so surely he'll want to play at least one full season under Ramos. Then, if we're still no nearer CL football he might think of leaving. I don't see why we can't have an attacking midfielder in our starting line-up. Just play Modric in behind the strikers and have Huddlestone or Zokora play defensive centre mid, which they're both good at.

[IAceI]

Sorry, I just don't see Berbatov being there. And I'll stick with that belief until for whatever reason I feel compelled to change it if I want. I mean, we were going to lose to Spurs easily in the opening day - yet we matched them and beat them, and there was quite a lot of people refusing to believe that. That was an instinct I had and it turned out completely right.

So for whatever reason, I trust my instinct and just don't see Berbatov being there. However I think Modric will adapt perfectly to the Premiership and keep Spurs strong on the attacking side. I still don't really trust them defensively though but I'm hoping they throw themselves back into the mix because they can make the season more interesting. Especially if them, Everton, Villa and Pompey are all wanting to make that step up from being UEFA Cup level teams on the European side of things. Luckily I have quite a good track record with players as I take great pride in that side of the sport, and looking at some players from other leagues who I'd love to see in the Premiership.

Whatever happens if they sell Berbatov, they're going to make a lot of money out of him and good business. And they could easily replace him if they want. If he does stay, which I'm not ruling out - but right now I don't see happening for whatever reason - I reckon one more year. At the same time if he decides to stay for a year, a lot will change then - big teams may not be as interested in him (will he be 28/29ish then?) and will be able to pick up on some other players. At the same time I think Berbatov's happiness is over exaggerated by his agent too much who seems to want him to move away more than Berbatov does.

Hope he stays as he's one of my favourite players, and he's a stand out at Spurs. He's the main man, everything at Spurs is about him and if he goes to a big club then there is a danger of him blending in moreso and being lost in the shuffle.

At the same time, say they play one striker with Modric behind them. As opposed to 2 up front and a diamond midfield. Would Keane sit on the bench and be the second striker? Or is he the sort of person that will be wanting to start and play every match. As I get the idea that as much as Keane is a team player and loves the club etc. and all that, he's happy when on the field and wouldn't really want to sit on bench watching. Assuming they play Modric off a striker, as for whatever the reason the idea of Spurs in a diamond scares me slightly.

[therockbox]

The penalty wasn't a penalty. It was ball to hand and not hand to ball and there is the big difference in my opinion.

It wasn't ball to hand, Carrick was miles away from Essien. I don't think he handballed it on purpose, but at the same time he shouldn't have had his arm out there in the first place.

United should have had a penalty as well, but then Chelsea get away with that shit on a weekly basis so I'm not surprised it wasn't given.

[IAceI]

There wouldn't be any handballs if they were only 'on purpose'. 1% of the time would a player decide using their hand would be the clever thing to do. It's the fact the ball hit his hand and that effected where the ball was going. The fact "Ferdinand had it covered" as Fergie claims has no bearing on the decision. A handballs a handball.

[Sam]

But how are you suggesting they get their arms out of the way? Have them tied behind them before they enter the box or something? I also fail to see how the linesman is 100% certain that the ball touched Carricks hand as even in TV replays its blinking hard to see its literally blink and you miss it. I mean the ball was played at the same speed when he flagged Ronaldo offside when he was clear through and that turned out to be the wrong decision. So how can he suddenly be able to tell that Carricks touched the ball with his hand and thus give a penalty. Poor officiating and its getting boring that every discussion in football is about the officiating.

[IAceI]

Come off it, Man Utd fans are the last people who should be able to complain about poor officiating. At Old Trafford it's all your way and you all sit there like its perfectly acceptable, as soon as its against you everyones up in arms. It's ludicrous but just what you come to expect after a while. There's teams out there who get absolutely nothing, and half the times its because people just look at them and think "Oh it's only _____, they don't matter if I get a few decisions wrong." Whereas Man Utd get plenty their way, yet one decision against them and it's a conspiracy by Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Hackett and the referee's to overthrow Utd from the top of the empire.

As for 'getting their arms out the way', well, that's just a risk you have in football. Sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it hits your arm and it effects the flight of the ball, you didn't mean it but it doesn't mean it's the wrong decision to go against them. People mistime tackles and get booked for them all the time, they went for the ball - got there a bit late and suddenly there booked. Same with handballs, you don't want to handball it, but sometimes it hits your arm when you didn't mean it to - but it's still a penalty.

[Crybaby Bunting]

If the ball changed direction and it clearly didn't touch his head or chest then an official would be able to see that pretty easily. The problem would be making the split decision as to whether it was deliberate or not, the official thought it was and thus a penalty

As for IAceI's point, anyone remember the classic Scholes tackles? the yellow/red card challenges that were shrugged off by the ref? What about Roy Keane who was far worse? What about Ronaldo/Giggs' clear dives down the wings/penalty area?

Man Utd get away with a lot of shit so they shouldn't be so critical when they dont

Edited April 26, 2008 by The General

[IAceI]

I'd be under the impression if it was deliberate then he'd be sent off. But just because it effected the ball flight then it would just be a penalty without any repercussions?

On a different note, do we have to keep everything cramped in here? I mean sure, the general bickering and dismissing of opinions should be here. But, we could easily create a topic for say like a Live match and discuss it in there and stuff.

I just think its a bit dull we have a designated topic for the Premiership, the Coca Cola leagues and when an England match is on we create a topic then. I mean, it would generate discussion which would in turn lead to people giving opinions on something before ultimately being completely and utterly shot down in flames for having a differing opinion to someone. But, just a thought?

[Sam]

Not really much point though is there as people are going to be watching the game rather than being on EWB. I have to pop off to the pub to watch matches on Sky Sports for example and then need to um detox with help from a special friend found in pubs across the country.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Sam

[Crybaby Bunting]

But for that to work properly you'd probably need a new forum to stop the place getting cluttered up with Bolton Vs Fulham topics >_>

[alldaws1]

Sorry, I just don't see Berbatov being there. And I'll stick with that belief until for whatever reason I feel compelled to change it if I want. I mean, we were going to lose to Spurs easily in the opening day - yet we matched them and beat them, and there was quite a lot of people refusing to believe that. That was an instinct I had and it turned out completely right.

So for whatever reason, I trust my instinct and just don't see Berbatov being there. However I think Modric will adapt perfectly to the Premiership and keep Spurs strong on the attacking side. I still don't really trust them defensively though but I'm hoping they throw themselves back into the mix because they can make the season more interesting. Especially if them, Everton, Villa and Pompey are all wanting to make that step up from being UEFA Cup level teams on the European side of things. Luckily I have quite a good track record with players as I take great pride in that side of the sport, and looking at some players from other leagues who I'd love to see in the Premiership.

Whatever happens if they sell Berbatov, they're going to make a lot of money out of him and good business. And they could easily replace him if they want. If he does stay, which I'm not ruling out - but right now I don't see happening for whatever reason - I reckon one more year. At the same time if he decides to stay for a year, a lot will change then - big teams may not be as interested in him (will he be 28/29ish then?) and will be able to pick up on some other players. At the same time I think Berbatov's happiness is over exaggerated by his agent too much who seems to want him to move away more than Berbatov does.

Hope he stays as he's one of my favourite players, and he's a stand out at Spurs. He's the main man, everything at Spurs is about him and if he goes to a big club then there is a danger of him blending in moreso and being lost in the shuffle.

At the same time, say they play one striker with Modric behind them. As opposed to 2 up front and a diamond midfield. Would Keane sit on the bench and be the second striker? Or is he the sort of person that will be wanting to start and play every match. As I get the idea that as much as Keane is a team player and loves the club etc. and all that, he's happy when on the field and wouldn't really want to sit on bench watching. Assuming they play Modric off a striker, as for whatever the reason the idea of Spurs in a diamond scares me slightly.

So your prediction that Berbatov will leave this Summer was not because of Modric's arrival as you first said, but because you just have a feeling he will.

And why would we revert to a 4-5-1 and play Modric just behind the striker, especially when Berbatov and Keane's partnership has been so fantastic? And also when we know neither Berbatov or Keane is going to settle for the bench.

[AJ]

Ferguson never fails to surprise with some of his squad choices. Barcelona on Tuesday or not, you don't go into a game that could all-but clinch you the title with no Ronaldo, no Tevez and no Evra who are without a doubt some of the most hardworking players in the squad and most definately the best in their respective positions. Plus it's not like they need resting, they're all young and hungry for games and it's almost the end of the season anyway. I was also really disappointed to see Anderson, arguably our best player today, come off for a more defensively-minded O'Shea of all people. Tevez would've been a much more appropriate swap.

Poor officiating or not, we got exactly what we deserved thanks to the sub-par team we put out.

[IAceI]

What I said was, or at least meant was, I wasn't sure Berbatov would be staying in the first place and I'm not sure Modric coming in has helped.

Either you've misinterpreted it to a point or tried twisting my words, I'll assume it was the first one.

Edited April 26, 2008 by IAceI

[alldaws1]

What I said was, or at least meant was, I wasn't sure Berbatov would be staying in the first place and I'm not sure Modric coming in has helped.

Either you've misinterpreted it to a point or tried twisting my words, I'll assume it was the first one.

The way you worded it a couple of posts back it seemed like you thought Berbatov would leave and then talked about Modric as an aside rather than the two being linked. Anyway, the only way Modric coming in affects Berbatov potentially leaving is if Ramos is completely stupid and reverts to the formation you were on about of having only one forward with Modric playing just behind him. Unless Ramos is clinically insane, he's not going with just one forward and breaking up Keane & Berbatov to do it. I see no reason why Modric can't play in an attacking midfield role with two strikers. That's what a centre attacking midfielder usually does anyway. And sure, Ramos has hinted that Berbatov may leave but he's said if their price is matched. Just a few months ago he said it would take £30m, and nobody's going to pay that much for him.

[IAceI]

Marlon King was valued at £50m and went for £5m.

Also I could see Modric playing off the striker in a one striker formation. Whereas playing attacking midfilelder behind 2 others would be completely different. But we'll see how it goes. Spurs could easily attract great strikers should they sell Berbatov. For one I'd love to see Uche come in from Getafe.

[alldaws1]

Who the hell valued Marlon King at £50m?