MMA News and Discussion Thread

[ACCBiggz]

At this point in their careers that fight would be just atrocious. Both are far to tentative fighters these days, Cro Cop especially, it seems like it'd go 3 rounds without much happening.

I get a bit perturbed with such statements. Too tenative this days? Quite the contrary. Chuck Liddell has been a counter striker his entire career, and what got him KO'd by Ramapge and Rashad was actually being the aggressor. He also did quite well against Shogun before being caught. He would normally lull a fighter in and catch them in the exchange, something he hasn't been able to do. And Cro Cop has fought the same way for quite some time as well, just because the bell rings and he doesn't throw LHK's all the way across the ring doesn't mean he is now tenative. This is how both fights.

But the other problem I have with such statements is gameplanning is such a big part of MMA that even if they were a bit tenative (not saying they were) against previous opponents, it could have been a part of the game plan. I don't think Chuck or Cro Cop have any problem at all with pulling the trigger. In both cases it's quite obvious they have been trying to, they have just missed (moreso in Chuck's case). I don't think we'd see 3 rounds without much happening, but I'm also not sure we'd see a KO. Chuck has recently employed the use of takedowns and other facets into his fights and may be something we see.

The biggest flaw in Cro Cop's game that I have seen is him being flat footed and just stalking his opponent.

[ACCBiggz]

Josh Gross is reporting that Chuck Liddell will not fight again until at least April 2010.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

But preferably never.

[ACCBiggz]

I think this will give him enough time to recoup from some wars and get back. We'll see in April 2010.

“I haven’t personally made a decision one way or the other. Hopefully my brain can heal over time. The shot last fight is something that normally wouldn’t hurt me. I think I need at least some time off from getting hit. I’m going to take time off sparring then. I’ll train still. Still gonna roll. I’ll probably do a little more jiu-jitsu than normal because I like it. It’s fun.”

Edited July 6, 2009 by ACCBiggz

[blaze1992]

Chuck Via Triangle >_>

I really hope Chuck fights an James Irvin (if he stays at 205) or Houston Alexander, Someone who's usually overly agressive that chuck can counter agianst. Then he can retire with a win. But then again they'll give him Luis Cane or someone to eat him. I can see it now.

[Gene Kiniski]

Strikeforce fighter Lavar Johsnon has been shot and is in 'serious condition'.

Heavyweight Lavar Johnson was shot in the abdomen by an unidentified assailant at 12:34 a.m. PST on July 5 in Bakersfield, Calif., according to a news release distributed by the Bakersfield Police Dept.

Sherdog: http://sherdog.com/news/news/update-johnso...-shooting-18352

[ACCBiggz]

Last I heard everyone would be fine, but hearing he is in serious condition is a bit worrying. Hope he pulls through and returns to the cage.

[Fitzy]

Looks like Brett Rogers won't be getting that title shot just yet... Overeem will defend the Strikeforce Heavyweight title for the first time against Fabricio Werdum on the August 15th Carano/Cyborg card.

* Gina Carano vs. Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos (for Strikeforce women's 145-pound title)

* Champ Josh Thomson vs. Gilbert Melendez (for Strikeforce world lightweight title)

* Champ Alistair Overeem vs. Fabricio Werdum (for Strikeforce world heavyweight title)

* Nick Diaz vs. Joe Riggs*

* Roger Gracie vs. TBA*

* Billy Evangelista vs. TBA*

* Poppies Martinez vs. TBA*

* Erin Toughill vs. TBA

Edited July 6, 2009 by Fitzy

[ACCBiggz]

Overeem v. Werdum should be headlining. Carano/Cyborg shouldn't be main event by a long-shot.

[Fitzy]

Carano/Cyborg headlining is all about the ratings.

[ACCBiggz]

It won't gather anymore ratings than any of the other bouts.

Actually, a more accurate comment would be that its placement on the card won't effect the ratings.

Edited July 6, 2009 by ACCBiggz

[Fitzy]

Maybe, maybe not, but I don't really see it as that big of a deal.

I don't see why they couldn't just hold off on the heavyweight title fight until September. No need to put three title fights on one card.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Fitzy

[Plubby]

It's all about Marketing, Biggz. Hyping it as an all-female MAIN EVENT *dramatic sound effect* is much better than having an all-female bout *somewhere on the card*

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Plus their names actually will draw a far bigger TV audience than Josh Thomson or Alistair Overeem.

[ACCBiggz]

Plus their names actually will draw a far bigger TV audience than Josh Thomson or Alistair Overeem.

I'm not retarded. I know WHY they are doing it, it just SHOULDN'T be happening.

Also on this front, no it won't draw anymore of an audience. The way MMA events are billed with two/three big fights people who are going to tune in to see a fight will. When EliteXC had a Gina Carano fight, it wouldn't have drawn any more if they put it at main event because they promoted it the same amount as their main events. Use UFC 100 as an example: Are there going to be any less buys because GSP/Alves is the co-main? No. Would there be less buys with Mir/Brock as co-main? No. They are still advertising them equally. Which is my point with Strikeforce, and other MMA pundits agree - we all know why, we just don't agree with it.

Let me edit this in as well:

I appreciate what Strikeforce is doing with female MMA. However, with this being the biggest US women's MMA fight - it should be on CBS. This whole card should. They have the deal in place, and I'm not sure why they wouldn't pull the trigger with this event. With this card all the hardcore fans are going to tune in to see the two title fights, and then the Carano fans will also be out to see that woman's match which combining them together will make for the biggest Strikeforce card to date. So why not put this on CBS where you will multiply your audience exponentially. Coker does a great job, but I think this card having good exciting fights would have served them better under the lights of CBS.

Although, the only reason I could see for not doing it would be if the language in the deal was similar to EXC where CBS owned part of the company. But considering they have talked about doing a CBS show in the future I don't see that being the case as they are backed by a good company and purchased EXC.

Edited July 7, 2009 by ACCBiggz

[Plubby]

In my opinion, you are all wrong. They (edit: The women) will draw less fight fans. As a fight fan, I am much more interested in the Werdum fight. But fight fans will already be checking out the show, they don't need to be marketed to. This is called acquisition and retention of fans. You cater to the fans you already have by putting on good fights. This is retention. You get acquire additional fans by drawing their attention to something new or unusual that you are doing.

I think that the only reason that "the pundits" don't agree to it is because in this instance, it's not retention that is the top priority, and no one wants to be told they're second best.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Plubby

[Quom]

Why have main events at all by that reasoning? If they are all promoted equally then it doesn't matter. Plus I'm thinking that since Dana doesn't seem to like women's MMA that it may be safer to establish the women as stars rather than an Overeem who could walk out for the UFC. The women are what set Strikeforce apart from the competition and is the way they can most easily draw attention away from the UFC, not making it the main event would be weird IMO.

[ACCBiggz]

Why have main events at all by that reasoning? If they are all promoted equally then it doesn't matter. Plus I'm thinking that since Dana doesn't seem to like women's MMA that it may be safer to establish the women as stars rather than an Overeem who could walk out for the UFC. The women are what set Strikeforce apart from the competition and is the way they can most easily draw attention away from the UFC, not making it the main event would be weird IMO.

Dana has switched gears on woman's MMA. And I also share his same opinion. The problem with it is that there is no depth at the divison. After Carano/Cyborg - there is nothing. They did sign Erin Toughill, but we'll see if she has devoloped her game. And they still haven't signed the only other relevant female - Tara LaRosa. After those three, maybe four, there is no one. And any other female that steps into that cage to fight them is at a SERIOUS weight disadvantage like we saw in Cyborg's last fight. So this is basically the one and only "money" fight for women.

And big fights do draw, I never said Gina/Cyborg wouldn't draw (although alone it would draw considerably less). But my point is MMA events are normally billed like this - 2 or 3 big fights. And in this case, no matter the order - no more or less are tuning in so give the deserving fight the top bill.

Plus I'm thinking that since Dana doesn't seem to like women's MMA that it may be safer to establish the women as stars rather than an Overeem who could walk out for the UFC.

Strikeforce has to have permission from FEG to use Overeem themselves. He was at the UFC in Ireland and talked with Dana White, but he is content under the FEG banner. Strikeforce will be pulling for Werdum so they won't have another extended layoff when Overeem goes back to K-1/DREAM. He's not even their fighter.

Strikeforce haven't just come on overnight, and female MMA doesn't set them apart because there is no legit division. The only reason they created a title is so they could bill this as five rounds. As I stated above they only have one other woman on roster of the same weight class with decent skills.

In my opinion, you are all wrong. They (edit: The women) will draw less fight fans. As a fight fan, I am much more interested in the Werdum fight. But fight fans will already be checking out the show, they don't need to be marketed to. This is called acquisition and retention of fans. You cater to the fans you already have by putting on good fights. This is retention. You get acquire additional fans by drawing their attention to something new or unusual that you are doing.

I think that the only reason that "the pundits" don't agree to it is because in this instance, it's not retention that is the top priority, and no one wants to be told they're second best.

Once Gina Carano loses a fight female MMA will go under until a legit division forms. Bottom line.

And as I stated above, the reason the MMA purists and myself agree that it shouldn't be the main event, is because it doesn't deserve it. Overeem vs. Werdum is a MUCH more deserving fight. For a legit championship, against top ten heavyweights.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Plubby, when it comes to getting people to watch a show and keep watching it, Gino Carano has been a better draw than anybody who has ever fought on CBS, Showtime, Spike, or any other American network.

[ACCBiggz]

Plubby, when it comes to getting people to watch a show and keep watching it, Gino Carano has been a better draw than anybody who has ever fought on CBS, Showtime, Spike, or any other American network.

That is the most ridiculous statement I have heard. :lmao: