Official NFL 2007 Thread

[Trey]

But they are the Patriots, they do no wrong! I mean with the East Coast bias of ESPN and the constant "pursuit of perfection" junk their fans actually believe it. The Jets probably wanted a better view to get all of the players numbers (I have no idea how far back the cameras have to be) that were doing things away from the ball or something. Fact is, like it's been said, the Patriots were obviously not just videotaping the game.

Oh, and while Brady was talking shit, he was walking away talking shit when he got bumped, it was like he was getting bumped back into the circle to "fight" if you're at a bar/club/whatever and someone gets into it with somebody, starts talking shit, then backs up. You look at it one way, the rest of us look at it another, that's fine, I'd be sticking up for Grossman the same way.

And while I hate the Patriots, I agree with Bill Simmons, the Patriots should deactivate their punter. How big of a message would that send to the Jets, the Patriots saying "And just so you know, we aren't punting the ball. Ever. You are going to be embarrassed and we are going to not just beat you, but humiliate you."

[gunnar hendershow]

There is a BIG difference between what the Pats did and what the Jets did. Every team is allowed to tape what is going happening on the field. Hell you see pictures of formations being handed out constantly on the sidelines.

And even with the camera where the Patriots had it, they didn't really benefit much from it. You can record whatever the hell you want as game film, I guarantee you it's not going to make a difference the next time out there. Unless you're playing against the local Pee Wee team. People saying that the Patriots "spied" and "cheated" are just drones of the sensationalist sports media. What are you going to record that the hundreds of cameras the NFL already has set up to catch every single spot of the field and sidelines aren't?

[sahyder1]

There is a BIG difference between what the Pats did and what the Jets did. Every team is allowed to tape what is going happening on the field. Hell you see pictures of formations being handed out constantly on the sidelines.

And even with the camera where the Patriots had it, they didn't really benefit much from it. You can record whatever the hell you want as game film, I guarantee you it's not going to make a difference the next time out there. Unless you're playing against the local Pee Wee team. People saying that the Patriots "spied" and "cheated" are just drones of the sensationalist sports media. What are you going to record that the hundreds of cameras the NFL already has set up to catch every single spot of the field and sidelines aren't?

Edited December 13, 2007 by sahyder1

[Trey]

I could argue more, but ESPN.com has a great article up explaining the difference between the Jets and the Patriots in terms of the videotaping.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3151217

[Cactus Drags]

But they are the Patriots, they do no wrong! I mean with the East Coast bias of ESPN and the constant "pursuit of perfection" junk their fans actually believe it. The Jets probably wanted a better view to get all of the players numbers (I have no idea how far back the cameras have to be) that were doing things away from the ball or something. Fact is, like it's been said, the Patriots were obviously not just videotaping the game.

Oh, and while Brady was talking shit, he was walking away talking shit when he got bumped, it was like he was getting bumped back into the circle to "fight" if you're at a bar/club/whatever and someone gets into it with somebody, starts talking shit, then backs up. You look at it one way, the rest of us look at it another, that's fine, I'd be sticking up for Grossman the same way.

And while I hate the Patriots, I agree with Bill Simmons, the Patriots should deactivate their punter. How big of a message would that send to the Jets, the Patriots saying "And just so you know, we aren't punting the ball. Ever. You are going to be embarrassed and we are going to not just beat you, but humiliate you."

[gunnar hendershow]

There is a BIG difference between what the Pats did and what the Jets did. Every team is allowed to tape what is going happening on the field. Hell you see pictures of formations being handed out constantly on the sidelines.

And even with the camera where the Patriots had it, they didn't really benefit much from it. You can record whatever the hell you want as game film, I guarantee you it's not going to make a difference the next time out there. Unless you're playing against the local Pee Wee team. People saying that the Patriots "spied" and "cheated" are just drones of the sensationalist sports media. What are you going to record that the hundreds of cameras the NFL already has set up to catch every single spot of the field and sidelines aren't?

Let's calm down a little there kid. No you can not record "whatever the hell you want as game film." You can record the action on the field. Play calls? That's the same in any sport. You try stealing a sign in baseball and one of your guys is going down for example. Game film makes a huge difference. Every team shares in on the NFL footage plus pretty much every team has their own cameras that they use for team meetings and what not when need be. How can the same people who in a baseball thread kill athletes for cheating by using steroids.....but cheating here is just fine? Isn't all cheating....cheating?

What are you talking about? Yes, it's illegal and thus could be considered cheating. But anyone with half a brain about football filming knows that you could record the playbook and it ain't going to make a difference the next time the teams play. These coaches are smart enough to always take that into account the second time they play a team that they need to redo a large portion of their playcalling. It's all just a bunch of kids who think they know everything about sports playing into the media's manipulative hands.

[Maxx]

Yes, but its surely going to be effective against the team in that game. The Pats did it to use the tapes during half time so they know what to look for during the second half. I'm not understanding your point Damshow.

[gunnar hendershow]

Yes, but its surely going to be effective against the team in that game. The Pats did it to use the tapes during half time so they know what to look for during the second half. I'm not understanding your point Damshow.

Doubtful even in the second half. Are you going to call the same play twice? Seriously, what sham of an NFL franchise would do something that stupid? This is all just media sensationalism and you are all just tools of it. They want your viewership and attention for money, and you play right into their hands. Think more logically, you'll see the truth.

[Evil Chase K]

Yes, but its surely going to be effective against the team in that game. The Pats did it to use the tapes during half time so they know what to look for during the second half. I'm not understanding your point Damshow.

[livid]

Damshow's right; it's against the rules, therefore it's cheating, but the actual gain of anything from said cheating is very little. I'm tired of ESPN always bringing up "Spygate" but the only reason why it's continued to be brought up is because people think it's a big deal because it's cheating, not because they gained a huge advantage from the tapes.

[Maxx]

They were taping their defensive signals for shifts and audibles and such. You know, things that involve moving the entire defense, you can't have a huge number of signals for that kind of thing it gets way too complicated. They have certain number of signs and signals they'd use the entire game to call defensive shifts or audibles or to realign the defense if there's a no huddle offfense.

If you think they have hundreds of hand signals for such things, you're insane. I'm sure they have 2 or 3 for each adjustment, so anyone casually watching might have trouble keeping track, but not enough that taping it and having a few minutes to analyze it wouldn't help.

[Vendetta]

So I guess we can now put the whole "Bush vs. Williams" case to rest now. Williams is having a great sophomore season and Bush has proven that he is a utility player but is not deserving of being a feature back.

[naiwf]

If the Saints were smart they'd make Reggie a full time slot receiver. That way they could throw the ball to him in space instead of out of the backfield and they could run a few gimmick plays with him in the backfield instead of with him lined up as a receiver. If they don't adjust their approach he'll go down as a monumental bust.

[Trey]

Fine damshow, I'll explain it out myself. Each game, the home team gets the tapes of the game (not the sidelines, the game) while the away team gets to film from one endzone. However, the home team can grant the away team to film from both endzones, thus making the analyzing things such as hand placement, etc much easier. It's common practice for all teams to allow this for the other teams and expect to get it in return, and while the Patriots gave permission, they later said no.

The Patriots on the other hand had a guy on the Jets sideline filming playcalls, signals, all of it to be studied for future reference. And like Maxx said, each team only has so many signals they can use for each thing before it gets to complicated, so the difference between the two is obviously huge.

[gunnar hendershow]

Fine guys, since you guys clearly don't seem to get it, at all, let me repeat myself once again. It doesn't make a fucking difference. The media desires you to believe it does so you continue to turn to them to make them money, but when you get beyond the obvious facade they are creating it is more than simple to see the true case at hand. No matter what the Pats were filming, they could've stolen the playbook for Christ's sake, any other team in the NFL plans, no expects, their opponent to study every hand signal they have. They mix these up enough where even the most astute individual with the highest "football IQ" couldn't decode it. It is how the sport works, these coaches are aware of the rampant cheating that the Patriots were caught for, they prepare for it. These guys are much, much smarter than anybody posting on an internet message board, they live the sport every single day. They are professionals, they have the time and knowledge to prepare new hand signals for each half, quarter, minute of the game. This is the sport, it requires a brain to be a successful coach. These coaches are smart. Very, very smart.

[livid]

And to be honest, even in high school, we had to change our signals at halftime because the opposing coaches were reading the our defensive signals and other times for pure paranoia's sake.

Even analysts, directly after it happened, said that the actual use they got out of the footage was very little but the fact that they went against a rule is why it continues to be a topic. But anybody suggesting that they're gaining from the tapes is foolish; again, damshow's right.

[Kyle_]

Saw this in a diary in the Cube. Is that Goldberg?

[Vendetta]

Fine guys, since you guys clearly don't seem to get it, at all, let me repeat myself once again. It doesn't make a fucking difference. The media desires you to believe it does so you continue to turn to them to make them money, but when you get beyond the obvious facade they are creating it is more than simple to see the true case at hand. No matter what the Pats were filming, they could've stolen the playbook for Christ's sake, any other team in the NFL plans, no expects, their opponent to study every hand signal they have. They mix these up enough where even the most astute individual with the highest "football IQ" couldn't decode it. It is how the sport works, these coaches are aware of the rampant cheating that the Patriots were caught for, they prepare for it. These guys are much, much smarter than anybody posting on an internet message board, they live the sport every single day. They are professionals, they have the time and knowledge to prepare new hand signals for each half, quarter, minute of the game. This is the sport, it requires a brain to be a successful coach. These coaches are smart. Very, very smart.

[NobBe Nobbs]

But God help us, you're going to keep on trucking with this one.

[Lowerdeck]

With the guys the Patriots have, and the way they've played this year, does it matter? They got caught and still are 13-0 without it. Granted they should be 12-1, but still. You can't be that good just thanks to video cameras.