The Mafia Discussion Thread

[Josh]

I think you just need to have some faith in your players until they give you good reason not to. Your game is VERY active right now, more active than Mafia Mafia was for a long time, and people recognize that as a game that not only finished, but was a lot of fun for those involved. Don't sweat the activity just yet. DC Mafia is a-hoppin'.

[DMN in the House]

Just a short explanation of my non-explanation in DC Mafia. On the spur of the moment I spent a few days away from the world with my girl, and thats way more important than a mafia on EWB. Anyway, as far as my comment, I had to make it known that I needed the kryptonite to be useful, and if I had been around, I think it would have worked out the way I planned, when I explained that I could destroy it, thus greatly helping the town.

I still can't believe you guys let strongarm bandwagon me though. You guys suck.

[Maxx]

HE WAS A MAN OF SCIENCE YOU FOOLS!

Who's gonna save you now? God? HA!

[Josh]

...What?

I just showed up for the first time today. This is the first thread I read when I came, and ....what?

Dude, DMN, you got railroaded. I tried man.

[Gongsun Zan]

Hey guys. This is a message I'm sending to both TEOL and Zan, and it's about how both of you died in YPM II.

Just to be straightforward about it, it sucked to see both of you guys die largely due to boredom. And it's because of the boredom and what it made you both do that I'm a little upset, not that you died. That happens all the time, even to great players.

The thing is that I respect you both a lot, and it just hurt to see you both essentially take a crap on the game. That's how I took it at least. Maybe I'm wrong. But if that is right, I wish you guys would have simply said "Hey Josh, your game is ill-conceived/not going well/a waste of time/poorly run" or whatever it may be that turned you off to it.

Again, I really do respect you both. I try really hard not to be mean or insensitive, even on the internet, but at the same time I wanted you both to know how that made me feel. I apologize if I'm ruining something you guys used to enjoy or if I'm whining now, and if you have advice on how to better handle this or running games, I'm open to it. Now that I've spoken my mind, I'll shut about it and move on without mentioning this publicly.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and again, I'm sorry.

Josh

Allow me to level with you, then. When I told Zan that I was bored of the game, I meant all Mafia games. The gameplay of pretty much EVERYONE on EWB right now is so tired, uninspired, lazy and idiotic that I'm really coming to hate Mafia so much. It feels like every game I play, everyone in it except me is acting like they've never played before. So I get railroaded into making arguments that I've made a million times before, because people use some reasoning that I showed to be faulty ten games ago and everyone else just casually goes along with it.

I don't regret anything that happened in those last two lynches, rather I consider them a sad indictment of what Mafia's come to here. As I just posted, as far as I'm concerned, I laid all my cards on the table in full knowledge that no one would pay attention. I didn't plan anything in advance with Zan, though I expect he targeted me for the irony of it, and I personally find it hilarious. The town listened to him for literally no reason other than because he wrote it in big letters. Simple as.

I didn't actively defend myself after people started voting because I knew damn well, with the mindset most of those guys had, there was no way to swing them around. I've long complained about the over-reliance of these guys on investigations and how stupid it is, and it showed itself in full force here. It's an impossible grip to break. Had I tried to defend myself, the result would have been an ugly argument that would have gone in circles and ended with me getting lynched anyway, so it seemed only sensible to save everyone the time and effort.

There comes a point where even I get sick of repeating myself a million times over, when even I lose the basic faith that's driven me to try and stop this kind of thing happening in the first place. Personally, I think I'm there, because I honestly just don't care any more. It spilled into your game, which was just an unfortunate coincidence, as it could have happened in any game I'm in, or that Zan's in, or that anyone else who feels that way is in. Which is why I've stopped signing up for Mafia games, stopped paying a great deal of attention to them, and I'm thinking of killing off Trad Maf III before it even begins. I was persuaded to run it by certain people, notably Potato Head, in the hope that it would try to reverse the trend again. But in all honesty... fuck it. I thought Trad Maf II actually did some good, and now it's obvious no one even remembers it, so what's the point?

Ugh. I'm pretty sure me and Zan are coming from the same viewpoint, but I'm sure he'd word it differently somehow.

[TEOL]

That second one is me, by the way.

[Josh]

I suppose I should contribute, now that the PMs are public:

What you see above is the entirety of the conversation between me, Zan, and TEOL. Having read their side of the matter, I understand, and even agree to an extent. I guess that's all I have to say on the matter, but I figured I should say something so that no one interpreted me not responding as being upset with anyone, etc.

So, in short, I can see what you're saying.

[Kaney]

Sorry for sucking, Overlord. I wish I had the time to read all the other mafias going on around here, and to learn the best methods and strategies, but to be honest, I see these mafia's as a fun little distraction, a game you can play without having to spend hours writing and writing and re-writing a post to get it to the best of abilities, and yet still be able to contribute. Unfortunately I don't. I can't say the same for everyone else because I don't know their circumstances, but to me, the fun in a mafia game is getting a cool role, and seeing if you can actually do some damage with it, not getting pent up and frustrated because someone doesn't agree with every little thing I say. I know thats because I'm stupid, and I can accept that I'm not as good a player as you.

You said it yourself, you've repeated your strategems over and over and no one listens. Maybe it's because there's only a finite amount you can do with mafia's before you call it a day? You always get the same people signing up (You, MPH, Ace etc), the same roles doled out (cop, doctor, blocker etc) and the same people being killed on the first night (GoGo). You can call it Batman mafia, or space mafia or whatever the fuck you want, but at the end of the day, it all ends up as the same thing. Random accusations and bandwaggoning. I know you're amazing at logic, and you wrote the bible of mafias with Traditional mafia, but getting upset about it is counter-productive.

I've posted before how amused I was when you all started copying that site with your 'scum' terms and whatnot, and don't take this as me trying to chase you away, you know I was the one who PM'd you about that ages ago, but honestly, perhaps you're better playing your mafias with that community since it seems your only alternative is to insult everyone else here for not being as fucking impressive as you.

Also, I have not read the game in question, nor do I intend to. I like my bile-filled rants to be nonsensical and unbiased.

Also also, Zan has a history of ruining perfectly good games, don't you?

Edited January 7, 2008 by Kaney And Lynch

[Gongsun Zan]

Sorry for sucking, Overlord. I wish I had the time to read all the other mafias going on around here, and to learn the best methods and strategies, but to be honest, I see these mafia's as a fun little distraction, a game you can play without having to spend hours writing and writing and re-writing a post to get it to the best of abilities, and yet still be able to contribute. Unfortunately I don't. I can't say the same for everyone else because I don't know their circumstances, but to me, the fun in a mafia game is getting a cool role, and seeing if you can actually do some damage with it, not getting pent up and frustrated because someone doesn't agree with every little thing I say. I know thats because I'm stupid, and I can accept that I'm not as good a player as you.

You said it yourself, you've repeated your strategems over and over and no one listens. Maybe it's because there's only a finite amount you can do with mafia's before you call it a day? You always get the same people signing up (You, MPH, Ace etc), the same roles doled out (cop, doctor, blocker etc) and the same people being killed on the first night (GoGo). You can call it Batman mafia, or space mafia or whatever the fuck you want, but at the end of the day, it all ends up as the same thing. Random accusations and bandwaggoning. I know you're amazing at logic, and you wrote the bible of mafias with Traditional mafia, but getting upset about it is counter-productive.

I've posted before how amused I was when you all started copying that site with your 'scum' terms and whatnot, and don't take this as me trying to chase you away, you know I was the one who PM'd you about that ages ago, but honestly, perhaps you're better playing your mafias with that community since it seems your only alternative is to insult everyone else here for not being as fucking impressive as you.

Also, I have not read the game in question, nor do I intend to. I like my bile-filled rants to be nonsensical and unbiased.

Also also, Zan has a history of ruining perfectly good games, don't you?

[Kaney]

I'd argue I didn't actually ruin YP2, just that nobody seems to have noticed what has come about.

You sure as fuck ruined Whodunit 2 though. I kid, you know I only midly dislike you ({)

People just get far too worked up about things. I was guilty of it before, and the whole situation reminds me of people giving RP diaries the last rites as well.

[Gongsun Zan]

Sorry for sucking, Overlord Kaney. I wish I had the time to read all the one other mafias whodunnit going on around here, and to learn the best methods and strategies, but to be honest, I see these mafia's diaries as a fun little distraction, a game you can play without having to spend hours writing and writing and re-writing a post to get it to the best of abilities, and yet still be able to contribute. Unfortunately I don't. I can't say the same for everyone else because I don't know their circumstances, but to me, the fun in a mafia RP game is getting a cool role, and seeing if you can actually do some damage with it, not getting pent up and frustrated because someone doesn't agree with every little thing I say. I know thats because I'm stupid, and I can accept that I'm not as good a player writer as you.

[NobBe Nobbs]

You can call it Batman mafia, or space mafia or whatever the fuck you want, but at the end of the day, it all ends up as the same thing. Random accusations and bandwaggoning.

[Kaney]

Sorry for sucking, Overlord Kaney. I wish I had the time to read all the one other mafias whodunnit going on around here, and to learn the best methods and strategies, but to be honest, I see these mafia's diaries as a fun little distraction, a game you can play without having to spend hours writing and writing and re-writing a post to get it to the best of abilities, and yet still be able to contribute. Unfortunately I don't. I can't say the same for everyone else because I don't know their circumstances, but to me, the fun in a mafia RP game is getting a cool role, and seeing if you can actually do some damage with it, not getting pent up and frustrated because someone doesn't agree with every little thing I say. I know thats because I'm stupid, and I can accept that I'm not as good a player writer as you.

It's alright. I forgive you, but don't make a habit out of it.

[Maxx]

Oh what the fuck people? Mafias go on without a hitch for YEARS here, then I suddenly decide to get involved and the shit hits the fan? Jesus.

By the way, you're both right. Kaney is correct, its only a game and you shouldn't be getting so annoyed with. TEOL has a point however, in that by now your Mafia games should be incredibly well contested games of strategy, considering the ridiculous amount of them EWB has held. Of course since there has been so many, thats probably exactly why they AREN'T incredibly well contested games of strategy. There's always like 8 to choose from, so there's no real reason to treat any one as special.

Look at Battle Royale. It was a once a year spectacle everyone brought their A Game to, cause everyone wanted to win. Mafia was probably like that initially, but now it happens every day basically, and people can't get motivated to really bring their A game every single time.

I suggest unto you people, All Star Mafia. You guys look over the ridiculous amount of Mafia games there are each year, and vote on who the best players are. Top 25 then play All Star Mafia. How does this help? Well, who wouldn't bring their A Game to be declared EWB Mafia Champion? This will give you guys at least one well contested game a year, and should hopefully motivate everyone else to play better so they can get votes and have a chance to play All Star Mafia.

Just a suggestion

[Chris the Human]

You'd need a lot less than 25. That seems to be the average turnout for a game here.

[Gongsun Zan]

Oh what the fuck people? Mafias go on without a hitch for YEARS here, then I suddenly decide to get involved and the shit hits the fan? Jesus.

By the way, you're both right. Kaney is correct, its only a game and you shouldn't be getting so annoyed with. TEOL has a point however, in that by now your Mafia games should be incredibly well contested games of strategy, considering the ridiculous amount of them EWB has held. Of course since there has been so many, thats probably exactly why they AREN'T incredibly well contested games of strategy. There's always like 8 to choose from, so there's no real reason to treat any one as special.

Look at Battle Royale. It was a once a year spectacle everyone brought their A Game to, cause everyone wanted to win. Mafia was probably like that initially, but now it happens every day basically, and people can't get motivated to really bring their A game every single time.

I suggest unto you people, All Star Mafia. You guys look over the ridiculous amount of Mafia games there are each year, and vote on who the best players are. Top 25 then play All Star Mafia. How does this help? Well, who wouldn't bring their A Game to be declared EWB Mafia Champion? This will give you guys at least one well contested game a year, and should hopefully motivate everyone else to play better so they can get votes and have a chance to play All Star Mafia.

Just a suggestion

[TEOL]

Oh what the fuck people? Mafias go on without a hitch for YEARS here, then I suddenly decide to get involved and the shit hits the fan? Jesus.

By the way, you're both right. Kaney is correct, its only a game and you shouldn't be getting so annoyed with. TEOL has a point however, in that by now your Mafia games should be incredibly well contested games of strategy, considering the ridiculous amount of them EWB has held. Of course since there has been so many, thats probably exactly why they AREN'T incredibly well contested games of strategy. There's always like 8 to choose from, so there's no real reason to treat any one as special.

Look at Battle Royale. It was a once a year spectacle everyone brought their A Game to, cause everyone wanted to win. Mafia was probably like that initially, but now it happens every day basically, and people can't get motivated to really bring their A game every single time.

I suggest unto you people, All Star Mafia. You guys look over the ridiculous amount of Mafia games there are each year, and vote on who the best players are. Top 25 then play All Star Mafia. How does this help? Well, who wouldn't bring their A Game to be declared EWB Mafia Champion? This will give you guys at least one well contested game a year, and should hopefully motivate everyone else to play better so they can get votes and have a chance to play All Star Mafia.

Just a suggestion

Two points:

1) oldskool sort of did that with his Mafia Championship Series or whatever it was called, and if memory serves correctly it fell apart.

2) Cubeamania still stands as a testament to the lack of motivation that being the best inspires in the average Cuber.

[Kaney]

Look at Battle Royale. It was a once a year spectacle everyone brought their A Game to, cause everyone wanted to win. Mafia was probably like that initially, but now it happens every day basically, and people can't get motivated to really bring their A game every single time.

Thats essentially what I was trying to say. Thanks for saying it clearer and in less words than I managed >_>

[TEOL]

Look at Battle Royale. It was a once a year spectacle everyone brought their A Game to, cause everyone wanted to win. Mafia was probably like that initially, but now it happens every day basically, and people can't get motivated to really bring their A game every single time.

Thats essentially what I was trying to say. Thanks for saying it clearer and in less words than I managed >_>

That doesn't change the fact that, like I said, most Mafia games I come into these days feel like no one else in the game has ever played Mafia before, ever.

[Gongsun Zan]

What is this Battle Royale thing I keep hearing of?