The Mafia Discussion Thread

[StevenRichardsRules]

I think SRR wants to be excluded from that Watchmen game. He's only trying to appear like he wants in.

Fuck you.

[naiwf]

If C-MIL had been more vocal we would have killed him to make it look like it was you. Just so you know. Then you would have died too. His unorthodox play got you both a win. The town still would have won anyway, but it would have been people who really didn't do much but vote, claim and coast.

[-A-]

So what? If I played really badly and never found scum I'd never be night-killed. Awesome. Just because you survive doesn't mean you're playing well, usually it's the opposite. He didn't get either of us a win, as the rest of your post proves. The result was a foregone conclusion.

[naiwf]

So what? If I played really badly and never found scum I'd never be night-killed. Awesome. Just because you survive doesn't mean you're playing well, usually it's the opposite. He didn't get either of us a win, as the rest of your post proves. The result was a foregone conclusion.

He saved you from a night kill. How did he not get you specifically a win if nothing else? You almost seem to be incapable of admitting that you might be wrong, like ever. The only four people we had a chance of getting the town to turn on were you two, TRW and Ruki. Try to think of a link that the four of you shared until C-MIL claimed bomb.

[Matt]

Good play if you're a doc is posting enough to keep the town happy but not enough to get the scum's attention. C-MIL's play worked in that game but it could have easily fucked up had the town chosen not to believe his claim.

Obviously we can't force people to contribute, but if they don't they have to expect the active players to pressure them into being active because of the amount of times that scum win/get very close to winning by being inactive.

[-A-]

The town was never, ever going to lynch me. Why do you think that? It didn't even happen when I was muted. When I had the chance to post my reasons you gave up the ghost and admitted defeat because it was the end of the game. With these reasons do you seriously think I was getting lynched?

1) I’m Papa Smurf

2) I led the lynch on pizzamonkey

3) I pushed the roleclaiming agenda that’s seen us get close to victory

4) I defended Bigal against the easy lynch scum tried to push forward

5) I was targeted for a kill which failed. There is only one kill at the moment – the mafia’s.

Do you think C-MIL saving me from a kill means he didn't play scummily in-thread? Are these two remotely related? No, they aren't. Why do you think that C-MIL was one of the people you could have got the town to lynch? Is that a good thing? Evidence of good town play? If you're trying to get back to the 'roleclaiming decided this game' then you're right and I have never said otherwise.

You almost seem to be incapable of admitting that you might be wrong, like ever.

I didn't say I was wrong with C-MIL? I didn't apologise to oldskool in Criminal Minds when he claimed? I haven't admitted to missing two scum lynches in recent games? When I think I'm wrong I admit it.

Edited April 15, 2009 by -A-

[naiwf]

The town was never, ever going to lynch me. Why do you think that? It didn't even happen when I was muted. When I had the chance to post my reasons you gave up the ghost and admitted defeat because it was the end of the game. With these reasons do you seriously think I was getting lynched?

1) I’m Papa Smurf

2) I led the lynch on pizzamonkey

3) I pushed the roleclaiming agenda that’s seen us get close to victory

4) I defended Bigal against the easy lynch scum tried to push forward

5) I was targeted for a kill which failed. There is only one kill at the moment – the mafia’s.

Do you think C-MIL saving me from a kill means he didn't play scummily in-thread? Are these two remotely related? No, they aren't. Why do you think that C-MIL was one of the people you could have got the town to lynch? Is that a good thing? Evidence of good town play? If you're trying to get back to the 'roleclaiming decided this game' then you're right and I have never said otherwise.

You almost seem to be incapable of admitting that you might be wrong, like ever.

I didn't say I was wrong with C-MIL? I didn't apologise to oldskool in Criminal Minds when he claimed? I haven't admitted to missing two scum lynches in recent games? When I think I'm wrong I admit it.

You weren't ever going to be lynched because you knew you were town and that only 2 other people could have been scum if not GoGo and Pizza and they were C-MIL and Ruki. Everyone was already convinced that GoGo and Pizza were scum because they wouldn't claim. You didn't play an amazing game. You managed to have a claim and used your clout as a player to force everyone else to give theirs up under punishment of death if they disobeyed you. Did you forget that you thought there were more mafia members than their were as well mainly because you didn't have claims from those two guys who were on your side? Not getting lynched is well and good, but if you get night killed you're just as dead as someone who gets lynched.

C-MIL actually played the game of mafia. He didn't reveal his hand until necessary and carried the two strongest players to the end. Without his claim he dies that day he's getting lynched, you'd have died that night and we MIGHT have been able to swing some of the other townies who weren't even trying. IMHO, C-MIL's play was the best of the town from a play standpoint. He didn't rely on crutches. He did fuck up a few things by protecting Pizza, but he ended up making a pivotal move that saved the town's ass. I honestly wouldn't care how poorly someone played if they made the right moves at the end.

[oldskool]

You know what'd be nice? If my games got this kind of following.

[C-MIL]

Should've picked me to play then...

[oldskool]

The way things are going I might get through the entire waiting list.

[naiwf]

You know what'd be nice? If my games got this kind of following.

This too could have been yours if I didn't die on the first night

[Matt]

You should've opened your sign up thread when I was around and I'd have whored your thread into oblivion as I do most games...

[Mr Evil Guy]

Should've picked me to play then...

this.

[Gongsun Zan]

VOTE ARKHAM OR THE WORLD IS DEVOURED BY UNSPEAKABLE EVILS

[Mr Evil Guy]

Thanks for the heads up (Y).

So who else is voting WWF92?

[C-MIL]

I'm bussing some unspeakable evils in to vote for it.

I promised them plenty of food.

[Gongsun Zan]

Also, on the subject of roleclaiming, it's incredibly stupid to expect people not to claim. It is the responsibility of the game designer to ensure that mass-claiming will not kill their game.

I agree with -A-. Someone needs to do a Mafia Game Design FAQ.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

MPH's Big But By No Means Comprehensive List Of Ways Game Runners Can Discourage Roleclaiming:

1) Safeclaims

2) A 'no roleclaiming' rule

3) Scum players with abilities that are normally town

4) Roles, both town and scum, that are mostly to completely unrelated to the game theme

5) Randomly chosen roles as mafia

I personally think #2 is the weakest of the lot.

[Gongsun Zan]

6) A really large pool of potential roles.

7) Taking advantage of more generic themes instead of settings with a limited set of characters.

8) Make everyone Mafia.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Zan and Max

[-A-]

It definitely is. They have that rule on the other board and it just leads to people doing things like quoting their characters or being sly. Where do you draw the line? It's really tough. I'd also add:

1) Lyncher/Lynchee/'Find that guy' roles

2) Unpredictable mafia groups. That doesn't mean 'totally random' it can include generalised groupings like Jam's WWE Mafias.

3) Give the mafia an 'is this role in the game?' ability.

4) Lots of really obscure roles, preferably including the day zero sacrifice (this is really similar to your points I know, MPH.)

Neither of these solves the issue on its own, but it lessens the impact. I still believe that fakeclaiming is great fun and it's within the spirit of the game to have people fakeclaiming and trying to spot fakeclaims.

This might be even more irritating to some people, but I definitely think which side we prefer to play us contributes to this. Roleclaiming, by and large, harms the scum. So if you prefer playing as town then you kind of like it. If you prefer playing as scum and you've been busted time and time again by the lack of a claim, you hate it. I just hate investigators

EDIT: Realised I put 'town' instead of 'scum' in the last paragraph.

Edited April 15, 2009 by -A-