The Mafia Discussion Thread

[-A-]

I knew you'd say that, you prick.

In my view, anything that may get someone to tip their hand is a legitimate tactic. Mafia's a dirty, dirty, game.

It was a joke, I you.

This argument in Golden City between -A- and the others needs to keep going so he can keep calling me a good player in every post.

It's not working, I don't think they believe me

[Maxx]

Anyone want Essa's spot in Cartoon All Stars?

[naiwf]

We need games with more potential fakeclaims whether they are provided or not, or completely random mafia groupings. The process of everyone in a game claiming is not appealing to me at all. I don't like to claim for that reason, but I'm in the minority it seems.

[-A-]

It's the only reason people have to change their game design. Admittedly, I didn't realise what I was starting when I begun this, it seems to be almost impossible to fakeclaim. Still find it really tough to repress the desire to do something I know will work when there's no reason not to. It's like the problem of mafia-to-town turncoats. You know you can win the game for your side apparently within the rules of the game but you know it's cheap and potentially gamebreaking. Except this is obviously not quite as bad.

[naiwf]

It IS impossible to fakeclaim in some games, and that's why I think it's boring to just have everyone cite their character name, get cleared, go down the list until someone can't, lynch that player and repeat until the game ends. That's not mafia, that's doing an inventory check.

[RoyWill Rumble]

I think it more so falls upon the scum to come up with a good fakeclaim as opposed to the mod being able to come up one for them. On the other hand, the game mod needs to balance the game where if fakeclaims really are necessary, the subject matter is broad enough or the numbers good enough for the game not to be made up of EVERY single character of the theme, thus fucking the mafia. For example, Civil War was fucked and it was even more fucked by having such huge numbers, because it basically made it impossible for the scum to claim. YET, still GoGo was able to fakeclaim fucking Typeface and do it amazingly well. So, GoGo somehow pulled it off without any roleclaims at all, really.

[-A-]

Well, that's why mods almost always find ways to defuse that problem but it's Maxx's first game so we can cut him a break.

I particularly like role- or ability-claiming because it's a good way to get people involved. If you haven't done anything to prove yourself to be town then that's just one of the ways you can try it. In All-Stars Mafia it's only as we've got down to the dregs that it's become obvious that fakeclaiming is almost impossible.

I did try to consider general play as well. That's why I pretty much ignored Bigal despite him being on a list of three people unclaimed when there are probably 3/4 scum left. Roleclaiming's got to be just one string to your bow, not the only one.

[naiwf]

I didn't read Civil War, but if GoGo was the only mafia player able to come up with a claim because there weren't enough characters available then that's not cool. There's no point in having investigators if you can just have everyone claim who they are, see if it makes sense that those people would be in the game and lynch everyone else who doesn't claim because it's obvious that they're scum. The end game of CHIKARA was cool because we had the scum group narrowed down to 7 people based on play AND confirmed results. Even then, the town almost lost. It was also what made NFL QB exciting at the end. Obviously, no one was going to claim Tom Brady but there were a ton of roles available to choose from.

I'm just not a fan of being lazy and having everyone in a game claim their character and lynching the people who can't or don't because it's obvious they're scum.

[Pizza]

I like claimfests when I'm mafia. The claimfest in Criminal Minds helped us win the game because we knew who everyone was, and had every lynch and nightkill planned out for the rest of the game when there were still 15 players left. I was able to get away with not claiming for pretty much the entire game. I hate claimfests when I'm town though, I don't like tipping my hand, and I definitely don't like being told that I'm going to be lynched if I don't claim. As a townie, I don't like claiming unless it's an absolute last resort.

[-A-]

When I'm town I tend to worry that my role is either ironclad enough to get me killed or flimsy enough that it'll do no good. That's why it has to depend on the circumstances. In Cartoon Mafia there are loads of claimed townies, so you're not especially drawing attention on yourself by joining that group unless you're got a central character or one that's identifiable as an investigator/protector/vig.

Also, before we bemoan the roleclaiming in Cartoon All-Stars, let's remember:

1) It hasn't produced a single scum yet.

2) Nobody was talking about anything beforehand.

[naiwf]

When I'm town I tend to worry that my role is either ironclad enough to get me killed or flimsy enough that it'll do no good. That's why it has to depend on the circumstances. In Cartoon Mafia there are loads of claimed townies, so you're not especially drawing attention on yourself by joining that group unless you're got a central character or one that's identifiable as an investigator/protector/vig.

Also, before we bemoan the roleclaiming in Cartoon All-Stars, let's remember:

1) It hasn't produced a single scum yet.

2) Nobody was talking about anything beforehand.

D-Extreme's first post when he entered the game was asking you to claim. Then he went and found Jam's list and basically asked everyone who wasn't ID'd to fill in the blanks so he could narrow a list of about 10-12 down to a half or third of that. We've got 14 people lift in the game, only 5 people who haven't claimed and 2 definitive characters left. Once the next day comes, the last few people will claim, we lynch whoever hasn't and the game ends with anywhere from 6-10 people winning without us getting a single investigation or anything else "right".

[-A-]

Let's wait and see; but yeah, this has been an extreme example and it's only because it's a first-time game that this has come about. I apologise for contributing to this, I didn't have a clue what the show actually was and was just looking for something to get conversation started since I came in as a late replacement.

[naiwf]

It's not your fault. I tried to stop it when I saw what was happening, but it was already too late by then.

[Your Mom]

I was never going to claim in All Stars but then everyone kept trying to lynch my loser brothers

[wrathofcarnage]

I'll take Essa's spot in Cartoon if it hasn't already been filled, I've been half-keeping track of it anyway

[Maxx]

K, I'll PM you went the night period ends

[DFF]

We need games with more potential fakeclaims whether they are provided or not, or completely random mafia groupings. The process of everyone in a game claiming is not appealing to me at all. I don't like to claim for that reason, but I'm in the minority it seems.

This is one of the reasons I chose to run a general Marvel themed game, as not only are there a plethora of obscure characters you can claim, but also in different storylines some people can be perceived as good, bad or (even better) in between.

Admittedly, I kept the character choice fairly 'safe' in the first game, but for the sequel that's currently been worked on has a little more leeway for claiming of characters.

With regards safeclaims. I'd prefer the game material to be deep enough that Mafia can come up with their own. I don't mind safeclaims at all - I just prefer Mafia to do their own work coming up with one.

[Gongsun Zan]

Generic Role Titles FTW

[wrathofcarnage]

I agree with that, it's a good scum art to come up with a good safeclaim with a theme that is rife with them.

In fact, I will stand by my assertion that if Haruhi mafia wasn;t inherently (awesome!!!) fucked, that my Shamisen claim would have been awesome. Gogo believed it! :-D

But yeah, I'm a fan of games that are open enough to allowed mafia that are knowledgable enough about the source material to make some good plays, and as a runner, will PROBABLY not want to allow safeclaims.

So... who wants to vote It Mafia in the poll? (Y)

[Guest ToffeeFan2k8]

I do, I do!

So long as I get the role of George Denbrough, Derry-aligned 6 year old who got owned by It.