The Mafia Discussion Thread

[Gongsun Zan]

There's a big difference between hinting at something that would be revealed later anyway and throwing your hands up and saying "Fuck it, I don't want to play anymore" and then not giving another willing participant the opportunity to do so when about seven people have asked for spots and been shut out. The former really has nothing on the latter. I gave you a spot exactly because I thought you'd do well, and I shut other people out who would've had fun with the game. Taking your ball and going home is an incredibly assholish thing to do in this situation.

And I didn't say it wasn't. The fact was, I was getting lynched anyway, I felt it was a (dickish) tactical ploy to help the town so they can still make a correct lynch. If I'd given my spot to someone else, what would it have mattered? They'd have just been lynched instead.

I still say you've got no grounds to call someone a dick for going against the spirit of the game, whether it's two different matters or not.

Edit: Ruki, it was mine and Ross'.

SSTB/Will

[Ruki]

You and Ross had a game?

[Gongsun Zan]

You and Ross had a game?

Kingmaker.

[Matt]

You and Ross had a game?

My game and Ross' game.

Kingmaker and Futuramafia.

[Sousa]

The endgame of Ross's was such a foregone conclusion that anyone and everyone knew it was going to happen anyway. It's not even in the same ballpark. And yeah, I maintain that there is still a big difference between revealing an endgame and precluding other people who might enjoy a game from playing. Steeb lasted another two days despite Will's suspicious play. The same could've happened with your role, but your actions prevented that. So you'll pardon me if I'm going to be less apt to shut people out of my games in the future so you can play.

[Matt]

The endgame of Ross's was such a foregone conclusion that anyone and everyone knew it was going to happen anyway. It's not even in the same ballpark. And yeah, I maintain that there is still a big difference between revealing an endgame and precluding other people who might enjoy a game from playing. Steeb lasted another two days despite Will's suspicious play. The same could've happened with your role, but your actions prevented that. So you'll pardon me if I'm going to be less apt to shut people out of my games in the future so you can play.

And I don't expect you to do any different, I just merely feel you calling me an asshole or a dick is hypocritical, whether it's true or not.

[Pesci]

I agree that Mafia sucks now, but I do not endorse nor do I condone Matt's actions

[Marcos]

Maybe it's just me and it's because I've just recently got into mafia games, but personally I'm liking the way games are being played just now with lots of discussion and less "LOL VOTE: WHOEVER!!!!". I don't really care how long it takes to get a lynch through as long as we are having some discussion about it. Like in Sousa's game there was a bunch of us having a lot of good discussion, maybe we were going round in circles a bit but we were still talking about the game and trying to get to the right choice. I don't know but I like all the discussion and trying to come to a rational reason.

Matt it couldn't have been much easier for you, just PM Sousa and say that you were bored and to pass your role to a reserve or something, let him try and get out of the predicament you were in. That would have been a much better way than what you did, and for me seeing that, I doubt many future game runners are going to be allowing you into their games, just in case you get bored and decide to post your role PM.

Just my opinion though.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I'm really enjoying Sousa's game, when Matt's not ruining it.

[Sousa]

Matt it couldn't have been much easier for you, just PM Sousa and say that you were bored and to pass your role to a reserve or something, let him try and get out of the predicament you were in.

This was at the heart of it, yeah. I am sorry that I spoiled the ending of your game, but had I known you'd take it personally, I wouldn't have done it. You knew people were shut out of my game. You knew concessions were made to get you in. And you did what you did anyway. That's what makes me mad about this.

[Gongsun Zan]

I'm really enjoying Sousa's game, except for the bit where I'm dead.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Well that's what you get for being mafia.

[Matt]

I wasn't bored, I was fucked off with it, different matters. If other people don't want me in their games, fine, like I've said most games are getting boring now anyway. No-one buys anything, everything has to be perfect, we can't take risks, no-one follows any leads other than investigations or maybe what Zan/GoGo/RW say. It's getting ridiculous, there's discussion about things, which is good, and there's just flat out over scrutinising every little point to the point where we don't get anywhere.

Mafias are barely even games any more, because everything has to be played perfectly, we don't follow hunches, we work on roleclaims and what the investigators say and it's got to the point where anyone who doesn't have an authority in a game (either by being Pesci/RW/GoGo/Zan/TEOL or by having an investigator role or maybe having one of the big characters) can have no effect on the game and instead must just follow the crowd.

[Pesci]

Maybe it's just me and it's because I've just recently got into mafia games, but personally I'm liking the way games are being played just now with lots of discussion and less "LOL VOTE: WHOEVER!!!!". I don't really care how long it takes to get a lynch through as long as we are having some discussion about it.

See, the reason I hate Mafia at the moment is the opposite of that. Generally, the discussion is awful. It boils down to somebody saying they suspect

somebody else, a bunch of people coming in and agreeing, and said person roleclaiming. Sometimes they don't even have to roleclaim, it's just a case of them saying something and everybody hops to another target. Rinse and repeat. Mafias are winning more games because the town are playing like dickheads so often. It's frustrating. In WWE Mafia I can't be assed to do anything because any time I try to vote for somebody it turns out they've roleclaimed. Even in games like WCW Mafia where everybody knew we had safeclaims, nobody was willing to challenge the idea that SSTB was Wrath. Eventually the town gets sick of it and just bandwagons somebody. A lot of games just trundle along until the Mafia take over and start bandwagons that everybody hops onto because they have no idea what to do.

[Gongsun Zan]

Eventually people do notice and get better, though. A year ago all the town ever did was just bandwagon at random. Eventually we'll find a happy medium.

Unless you're HTTK, and insist that your poor performance was justified. Then nothing ever changes.

[R.W.]

Some thoughts:

- -Matt-, what you did was a dickish move, but Sousa, you pulled the same stunt in WWF 1999 Mafia, so don't complain too much

- Going forward, anyone who posts their PM with the intention of being modkilled will receive a warning for intentional sabotage of the game.

- The way people play as Town at the moment just makes it easier for the Mafia to win.

- I might ban roleclaiming in my next game as an experiment

- Isn't it cold out?

- Oh, and if people want to run a Large Game, I think I might insist on them having some experience running smaller games first.

[Matt]

Some thoughts:

- -Matt-, what you did was a dickish move, but Sousa, you pulled the same stunt in WWF 1999 Mafia, so don't complain too much

- Going forward, anyone who posts their PM with the intention of being modkilled will receive a warning for intentional sabotage of the game.

- The way people play as Town at the moment just makes it easier for the Mafia to win.

- I might ban roleclaiming in my next game as an experiment

- Isn't it cold out?

- Oh, and if people want to run a Large Game, I think I might insist on them having some experience running smaller games first.

It was, and I haven't denied it.

May I suggest you extend that to anyone intentionally trying to go against the spirit of the game?

Yes but it's annoying if you're not scum.

Please do.

Freezing.

Definitely a good idea.

Also, would it be possible to ask the admins to see if it's possible that only mods can edit posts in the mafia cube, so that people aren't modkilled for editing posts, which always seemed a bit of a harsh rule to me (although I can understand it to a degree).

[oldskool]

For the record, I have a large game on the waiting list but I have at least 2 other games not counted for the "games you've run" list, as I know I got through 2 rounds of the ill-fated MCS, Nintendo Mafia and Metal Gear Mafia.

[Sousa]

- -Matt-, what you did was a dickish move, but Sousa, you pulled the same stunt in WWF 1999 Mafia, so don't complain too much

I'd turned up scum in an investigation, had run out of options, and was prepared to give in and announce I'd been converted anyway, but I see what you're saying.

[R.W.]

For the record, I have a large game on the waiting list but I have at least 2 other games not counted for the "games you've run" list, as I know I got through 2 rounds of the ill-fated MCS, Nintendo Mafia and Metal Gear Mafia.

You're fine, don't worry (Y)