The Mafia Discussion Thread

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I'm against it for many reasons. How do we decide who's bad enough to play in those games and who isn't? How do they learn if they're not playing with more experienced players? Why does RW have to be on board?

You can run whatever games you want, but we shouldn't make anything 'official'.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I'm against it for many reasons. How do we decide who's bad enough to play in those games and who isn't? How do they learn if they're not playing with more experienced players? Why does RW have to be on board?

You can run whatever games you want, but we shouldn't make anything 'official'.

[-A-]

I think that would defeat the point. The experienced players would tell them what to do and they wouldn't figure anything out for themselves. I'd much rather they do stupid things game after game and eventually figure it out than turn into useless, quiet-as-possible bandwagoners.

EDIT:

I'm against it for many reasons. How do we decide who's bad enough to play in those games and who isn't? How do they learn if they're not playing with more experienced players? Why does RW have to be on board?

You can run whatever games you want, but we shouldn't make anything 'official'.

Whoever wants to be in a game full of newbies can, we don't need to send people down to the newbie game. If you want to play a game full of straw man arguing and circular logic, but where you can get away with some slip-ups without being thought of as a moron, then play.

Nobody learns anything if they're bandwagoned and insulted by the 'good players,' it's just not happening. Something like West Coast Avengers Mafia (or even DBZ Mafia) shows that some of the people who keep their mouths shut when the high-profile players are involved will actually try and figure things out for themselves if given the opportunity. You learn by doing, not for voting for the same guy that Pesci voted for.

Edited October 19, 2008 by -A-

[Huss Delgado]

I think that would defeat the point. The experienced players would tell them what to do and they wouldn't figure anything out for themselves. I'd much rather they do stupid things game after game and eventually figure it out than turn into useless, quiet-as-possible bandwagoners.

So it'd be like herding the differently-abled and watch them run amok?

I like that idea.

[-A-]

Yes, that's pretty much it. If nobody's interested, then fuck it, but if there are people who are, then it would be good for them. It's not an insult to say that someone is inexperienced at mafia. If people want to come in and play in a relaxed environment with players that aren't going to ridicule them, then we might as well give them the option. Far better than have potentially good games distracted because people are learning on the fly.

[Huss Delgado]

Yes, that's pretty much it. If nobody's interested, then fuck it, but if there are people who are, then it would be good for them. It's not an insult to say that someone is inexperienced at mafia. If people want to come in and play in a relaxed environment with players that aren't going to ridicule them, then we might as well give them the option. Far better than have potentially good games distracted because people are learning on the fly.

I've got to agree. I learned by trial by fire (at GDS though), and got modkilled my first game around. I honed my skills there, and came here. Between the boards there and here, and various other games.

I've racked up playing at least 30 games.

[R.W.]

So, I've got a suggestion to make that'll require RW (and everyone else) to get on board. What would we think about running some Newbie Mafia games? It seems like there are quite a few instances of players joining in when they're not really sure what's going on. This leads to them potentially messing up games with their stink and also irritating other people. We rightly criticise their play and they get pissed off because they don't realise they're doing something stupid and then probably end up leaving the Game Cube, never to return.

If we run a small 7-person game, when there are enough new guys who want to try it, they can learn some basics of mafia play that'll avoid them inserting their newbie feet in their newbie mouths. They're not going to learn what power roles might be out there or how to make sophisticated plays, but I think they can get an idea of things like 'when to make a roleclaim' 'when an investigator should out themselves' and 'how many mafia are there.' It'll also be much easier to pick up on who's scum because they're all operating with the same general level of mafia knowledge. There aren't going to be evil geniuses that know how to bully the town and there aren't going to be people to be disgusted by the shitty play they'll likely have to put up with.

I think this is the kind of thing that can be run separately from the list, which is why this requires RW's permission in particular. The games aren't going to involve the same guys that are playing in the normal games (and there are only 7 of them) and I think it'd be beneficial if we can run one whenever there's demand. Anybody think this is a good idea? It'll hopefully stop people joining games when they're not really ready and might make it possible to draw in some people who would otherwise be driven out of because they stink up our games.

Sounds like a good idea (Y)

[-A-]

I learnt in the mafiascum newbie games - the idea does work and this isn't just an attempt to herd the shitty guys into a different game. They can see what the actual game's like and if they like it, they can join other games. If they don't, they haven't ruined anyone else's game.

[Matt]

Eh, I'd still say that having more experienced players involved would be good, otherwise they'll probably just end up as really shite games where they don't learn anything - other than maybe how to win at a shite game - and then when they take the step up, they're not much better than they were originally.

Just seems a bit elitist to say "shit players over there, sort yourselves out, we have no responsibility for you; if you're decent you can come play in our games, if not stay there and play with other shit players."

[-A-]

It's not elitist, this isn't class warfare. I was exactly the same when I started playing the game - I made stupid mistakes and I didn't really have a clue how the game was played. Some people who are just starting to play the game might do better in a different environment, I certainly did.

As for the good player suggestion - well, that option is still there. I'm not suggesting that we ban people from signing up to other games, just that we provide another option. My personal feeling is that including high-profile players would, firstly, drive the good players batshit insane and secondly, would lead to the new guys constantly deferring to the big names.

This isn't a make-everyone-amazing solution and it's not going to teach people everything there is to know. I think it might provide the basics of 'what do people tend to say when they're mafia' and 'when should a cop claim?' They're simple, fast games and the players can go back afterwards and try and work out why people did what they did. Most of the bigger games we play are so complicated that we never figure out anything about 'what should a protector do' or anything like that.

[Matt]

It's not elitist, this isn't class warfare. I was exactly the same when I started playing the game - I made stupid mistakes and I didn't really have a clue how the game was played. Some people who are just starting to play the game might do better in a different environment, I certainly did.

As for the good player suggestion - well, that option is still there. I'm not suggesting that we ban people from signing up to other games, just that we provide another option. My personal feeling is that including high-profile players would, firstly, drive the good players batshit insane and secondly, would lead to the new guys constantly deferring to the big names.

This isn't a make-everyone-amazing solution and it's not going to teach people everything there is to know. I think it might provide the basics of 'what do people tend to say when they're mafia' and 'when should a cop claim?' They're simple, fast games and the players can go back afterwards and try and work out why people did what they did. Most of the bigger games we play are so complicated that we never figure out anything about 'what should a protector do' or anything like that.

But without guidance how would they know "what a protector should do", if you're just throwing them amongst other people who don't know how to play the only people they're going to learn from are people not worth learning from (else they wouldn't be in the game).

It could work, but nowhere near as well as with a couple of more experienced players to guide them IMO.

[C-MIL]

I think a mafia resource thread would really serve better. Something that has a glossary as I think it's terminology that screws most people up at the start.

Of course, I could be WIFOM on that.

[-A-]

Agreed, I might give that a shot actually. Though I might also just rip it all from the MafiaScum wiki.

[Sousa]

I think a mafia resource thread would really serve better. Something that has a glossary as I think it's terminology that screws most people up at the start.

Of course, I could be WIFOM on that.

You've already told me everything! I know where the poison is!

[Josh]

I think a mafia resource thread would really serve better. Something that has a glossary as I think it's terminology that screws most people up at the start.

Of course, I could be WIFOM on that.

You've already told me everything! I know where the poison is!

Someone should just do a Wallace Shawn Mafia, where EVERYTHING is based on circular logic.

I call dibs on Cliff Huxtable's Neighbor, Wallace Shawn-Aligned Man With a Toupee from "The Cosby Show".

[Sousa]

I call dibs on Mr. Incredible's Boss, Wallace Shawn-Aligned Really Short Guy Who Wants to Help OOOOOUR PEOPLE, BOB! Starting with Our Stockholders!.

[Huss Delgado]

I think a mafia resource thread would really serve better. Something that has a glossary as I think it's terminology that screws most people up at the start.

Of course, I could be WIFOM on that.

You've already told me everything! I know where the poison is!

Someone should just do a Wallace Shawn Mafia, where EVERYTHING is based on circular logic.

I call dibs on Cliff Huxtable's Neighbor, Wallace Shawn-Aligned Man With a Toupee from "The Cosby Show".

Shotty Canadian Prime Minster Clark MacDonald, Wallace Shawn-Aligned Man Who Starred In A Michael Moore Film That Was Actually Intentionally Funny

[oldskool]

But without guidance how would they know "what a protector should do", if you're just throwing them amongst other people who don't know how to play the only people they're going to learn from are people not worth learning from (else they wouldn't be in the game).

It could work, but nowhere near as well as with a couple of more experienced players to guide them IMO.

Then the more experienced players should give a post-game wrap-up of the good and bad moves made. If there's only 7 players you're looking at what, 6v1, 5v2 maybe? Wouldn't even take that long; I'd do it.

[GoGo Yubari]

I got Baron von Westphalen, Wallace Shawn-Aligned Wait Wallace Shawn was in Southland Tales?

[Sousa]

First person who calls dibs on Stewie Griffin's little brother is a homo.