The Mafia Discussion Thread

[TheRossWalker]

lol, underage drinking

Also lol, mosh pits

Who were you seeing?

[The Mask of Norro]

No offense meant to HTTK at all by this, but what he did in Inquisition Mafia may have been one of the worst scum moves I've seen someone make in a long time.

[-A-]

Even if he wasn't scum, it's still just such a bad play. A large part of playing the game is not getting yourself lynched regardless of which side you are. It's a game where people have different opinions and that's OK - some people really value voting patterns, some people like No Lynches, that's the way it goes. HTTK just likes to take potshots at people for coming to different logical conclusions. Maybe it's just because it's a confrontational, argumentative game, but you're playing stupidly if you insult people for that kind of thing.

Like, when I'm playing, I disagree with people who categorically will not accept No Lynches, but I've got over it. That's nothing to do with the specific game we're playing, it doesn't give me clues to which side you are and since we've got to the stage where no-one is going to give any ground and it doesn't affect the town's decision it's just a distraction from other topics. I'm always going to say there's a place for No Lynches and my patter is well-rehearsed. Other people are always going to say No Lynch is always a bad decision and their speeches are equally familiar.

A similar situation to this HTTK thing comes up when a newbie makes a mistake or uses horrible, horrible logic. I'm always worried that people have an attitude of 'they're useless even if they're town' because that's really just laziness and it plays into the mafia's hands. Newbies always make mistakes and HTTK is pigheadedly resistant to discussion. I try my best to ignore the fact that this kind of play is deeply annoying, but then I just manufacture justification like 'we'll spend the entire game engaged in pointless argument with him which seriously damages the town.' It's the only time I find myself drifting that way. With Matt, for example, I sometimes feel like we're speaking a different language when we play, but that's no problem to me any more. The first couple of games I couldn't get it out of my head that he must be scum for daring to have such different opinions, but I've seen examples of him playing well and his style being productive, so I can accept it and play on. Matt is actually playing the game and looking to work things out and that's good for everyone. HTTK sits and snipes despite the fact that basically everything he says of substance in nonsensical and floats by because people have started to wonder whether they're lynching him just because he's annoying.

[oldskool]

He's the new Be, ironically enough.

[TEOL]

He's the new Be, ironically enough.

Well duh. That's exactly why them two hate each other so much, they're each worried that the presence of the other could cause the universe to explode.

[Pesci]

Hey... shut up. To be fair I got hit on the back of the head in a mosh pit, that probabbly didn't help much.

Edited for awful spelling/grammar/stuff.

Being in a moshpit probably didn't help. Sort your life out

[-A-]

Right, I'm mulling over a lot of ideas at the moment and wondered whether anyone thinks any of these are particularly interesting or shitty. I'm almost definitely going to run Dynamite Mafia next because we're a bit short on Traditional games and I think it'll be hilarious. Then I'm probably working with Josh on one of the stylised ones, but it's all up in the air.

Normal Theme Games:

Discworld Mafia

A normal themed game, based on the novels by Terry Pratchett. Probably centred around Ankh-Morpork. Roughly 20 players with a moderate number of powers.

Lost Mafia

AFAIK, no Lost Mafia has ever been completed. Lends itself to the game so well – I’d probably base this around Season 1-3. That way spoilers can be mostly avoided, but the number of characters is large enough that roleclaiming isn’t a killer. Moderate number of powers as well – plenty of scope for vanilla townies in the source. Roughly 15-20 players.

Stylised Theme Games:

Martial Arts Fusion: International Academy

Game featuring characters based on different fighting styles (e.g. the Shaolin Monk or the Pit Fighter.) I’m trying to work out some kind of duelling system, but it probably wouldn’t work so it’ll just be a normal game. 18-20 players.

On The Set Mafia

Yet another vaguely idealised setting like MAF:IA or Reality TV Mafia. Based around a film set with characters inspired by various film stereotypes ('The Prima Donna,' 'The Arthouse Director' etc.) 12-15 players.

Las Vegas Mafia

General setting that allows for plenty of fakeclaiming if I can think up obscure enough characters. 'Siegfried and Roy' alongside the 'Old-School Crime Boss' or 'The High Roller.' Definite plus points because it'll probably include Prostitutes... Roughly 15 players.

Xtreme Combat Federation Mafia

This is a game based around an invented e-fed. A really, really shitty E-Fed. Characters like ‘Mr. Robinson … Robinson,’ ‘Nemesis’ and ‘Mephisto.’ 15 Players, with fakeclaims provided.

Traditional Games:

Siamese Mafia

This is game where everyone is in a publicly-revealed pairing, with communication allowed between them. You have one role and one vote between you and you can explicitly trust your partner. No Town/Scum shenanigans here and no separate abilities. This is an experiment with the idea that when you’re a townie all discussion has to be treated with suspicion. The mafia have a massive advantage in that they can bounce ideas around and thus their play is improved. Plus, discussing strategy and hunches is fun. Added to this, you'd be able to analyse two people. Getting scummy signals off one person but not the other? You've got to decide what to do. This would also somewhat prevent the good players from being immune to criticism - they'd potentially have a less experienced partner who can implicate them both. There would be some basic abilities and I might even add role titles for flavour ( you are Ben & Jerry? ) but the Siamese aspect is all that's important. 20-24 players (based on a 12/14 player set-up.)

Dynamite Mafia

This is a very quirky Traditional Game. 24 players and only 3/4 mafia – but very unconventional rules. The night period progresses as normal, but there are no lynches during the day period. Instead, each player has a stick of dynamite. If you choose to light it by posting STRIKE A LIGHT in the thread, your dynamite will be lit. After 24 hours have elapsed, you can blow up any player of your choosing … but you will die as well. In addition to this, once your light is struck, anyone can blow you up regardless of whether they’re lit themselves. The day only ends when someone is blown up and once the night-kill's done the day begins again with everyone in possession of dynamite again. There would be totally different ideas of strategy in this game - when to sacrifice, how you respond to apparent vigilantes, how you work out what to do without a formal lynch vote.

This game, especially the first time, would be utter anarchy. Would it be interesting? For me it would The reason the ratio’s been changed is because, obviously, at best one mafia will die during the day and at least one townie will definitely die. Under no circumstances will a scum player blow up another and townies will frequently kill each other. There’s no moderation by way of the lynch – no consensus needs to be reached and people will definitely get trigger happy.

[oldskool]

Dynamite Mafia will die day one, as nobody's going to commit suicide to kill anybody else, especially right off the bat. We're too win-centric for that. Maybe if the "winning side" consists of the 4 players that blew up the mafia...

[-A-]

You don't think people will want to take the opportunity to say 'SEE! I told you I was right, I have Almighty Mafia Instincts'?

EDIT: Besides which, maybe this'll actually help a couple of things. Firstly, as you say, people seem to want to sit back and survive, but you immediately come under scrutiny if you do that here. Then there's the tendency to lynch people when you're not really sure they're scum. This will happen far less often because you're sacrificing yourself and you look like an idiot if you do it unilaterally and it turns out you're wrong. The fact that there's no actual lynch vote means you need to face the same problems as Inquisition Mafia - people doing whatever they want without discussion from the group.

Maybe it would fail, but I'm inclined to think it would go in the opposite direction - the first few days would have at least a couple of townies popping in and blowing people up because they think they've got a read on someone. It would be interesting to see, anyway.

Edited February 15, 2009 by -A-

[oldskool]

Town wouldn't do anything. The entire "sitting back and doing nothing is suspicious" theory is true, but at the beginning of the game there's nothing to go on and as such no one can be faulted for doing nothing, as there is literally nothing to do but commit suicide (either by lighting your own stick or by putting yourself out there to get lit up by somebody else).

You'd have to vary it...maybe the mafia's night kill is lighting their stick of dynamite, and whoever gets lit up gets to choose who to take with them. A modified Kingmaker, so to speak.

[-A-]

I just see so many ways that people would decide to blow them up. Maybe HTTK comes in and decides to ignore everyone else, strike a light and take someone out. Maybe Matt does the same. Maybe Pesci gets annoyed at the fact that the game's going nowhere and decides to act on a hunch.

The mafia night-kill being a light strike wouldn't really do anything. There's no time limit to striking a light - you're not going to die because you strike a light. You only die when you kill someone or someone kills you.

I've seen this game work on other boards. It wouldn't necessarily be a model of reasoned town play, but I don't think it would fall into inactivity. At the very least, someone would get bored and blow themselves up to try and go out in a blaze of glory.

[Gongsun Zan]

I'm for Dynamite Mafia.

Though for the sake of EWB egos, make it so that only the people who kill Mafia win the game.

[DFF]

I quite like all those ideas, especially Discworld, Lost, and Dynamite Mafia.

[Pesci]

Dynamite sounds like the type of game that will be awesome after the first few days but boring in the first couple when a succession of townies are blown up for being idiots.

[Sousa]

The argument "so-and-so has been TOO defensive" is tossed around too much on EWB and at inappropriate times.

Discuss.

[Pesci]

It's just an absolutely awful argument.

[Sousa]

It doesn't make any sense at all when it's levied against someone who's come under suspicion in the first place. It seems like any time that player tries to argue in his own defense, he's being "too defensive." I can understand it coming out when a player under no suspicion suddenly and inexplicably starts going "I'M TOWN GUYS" (which I've seen in the past--Split does this all the time, and I don't think he even realizes it), but to put a player in a position where his survival necessitates being defensive--and then to suspect him when he reacts the way he reasonably should react--is right up there with "he's too townie" on my list of least favorite arguments.

[TheRossWalker]

Any arguing stance incorporating the word "too" is utterly retarded at least 90% of the time.

[Sousa]

Yeah well you're too fat.

[LittleDaniel]

What about too scummy?