World Cup 2006

[figos]

Did I say that Zambrotta and Sagnol were not better than him?

Asshole :thumbsdown:

[fineintent]

Did I say that Zambrotta and Sagnol were not better than him?

Asshole :thumbsdown:

[figos]

Zambrotta played Left Defender/Left Midfielder IIRC.

Edited July 7, 2006 by figos

[fineintent]

Zambrotta played Left Defender/Left Midfielder IIRC.

[figos]

I tought it was like this:

Buffon

Cannavaro Materazzi Grosso

Pirlo Gattuso Perrotta

Camoranesi Zambrotta

Totti

Toni

[alldaws1]

No, Zambrotta played right back in a 4-4-1-1.

[fineintent]

Why would Grosso ever play centre-back?

[unbedeutend]

And of course honor...

I think you mean honour.

[alldaws1]

Because of the one wonder goal he scored?

Ballack's been better than Frings. You could even argue Schneider and Schweinsteiger have been better than Frings.

[The Kraig]

Compared to a lot of other keepers, Robinson had a stormer.

To think France got to the final with Fabian 'Let's Make This Entertaining' Barthez is astounding, especially with the teams they've beaten.

And I had Terry in my best players list because I distinctly remember him making some crucial blocks and getting back really well to make last ditch tackles, in typical Terry fashion.

I can't believe no one else said Jaoa Ricardo. He hadn't had a club for YEARS and trained himself to be match fit for his country. That's dedication, and he made some excellent saves on top of it. The Portugal/Angola match was one of my favourites in the whole tournament.

It's also nice to know FIFA don't watch their own tournaments.

[Herr Matzat]

Because of the one wonder goal he scored?

Ballack's been better than Frings. You could even argue Schneider and Schweinsteiger have been better than Frings.

[The Third Dukes]

Okay, time for one Ugly American's take on this World Cup. Feel free to tell me why I'm an idiot.

I think the main trend of the World Cup is that coaches are afraid of taking a chance. It's amazing; you have all this world-class talent at your disposal and yet you play like you're trying to steal a point on the road in Stamford Bridge! While I and most of the US media (particularly Eric Wynalda) complained bitterly about the stupidity of Arena's 4-5-1, he was seemingly following a trend. Everyone and their brother was playing a 4-5-1 and keeping people behind the ball. The whole point of going from two points to three for a win between 1990 and 1994 was to make teams want to attack. Now, no one wants to attack.

Of course, there's usually a good reason. I cannot remember there being this many dead ball situations in football ever. I'm old enough to remember 1990, and while it was pretty uneventful, it didn't strike me as outright boring. This has been painful to watch! I like football -- maybe not as much as you English types, but much MUCH more than the average Yankee -- and I can't stand this garbage. Offside traps, midfield battles, and everything else kills it for me.

And speaking of dead balls, you have to consider the fouls. It's not just the fouls that exist -- the first few games were actually somewhat free-flowing. It was simply a case of teams realizing that, with 10 people seemingly behind the ball, the only way they could get anything was to hope for a set piece. So they tried Efor it -- a LOT. You pick on C-Ron (and, from what I saw against France, rightly so), but for crying out loud, it seemed like most of the teams were this way. I watched as much of Group E as possible -- five of the six matches, with only ITA/CZE escaping me for obvious reasons -- and the Americans and Czechs were trying to fight through the ball and get the shot off. Meanwhile, Italy and Ghana tried for fouls left and right. The end result was a penalty right at the end of the first half for Ghana that may or may not have cost the US a second round berth (deserved or not), plus Italy getting a second American player sent off (Pope) for a tackle WHERE HE PLAYED FOR AND WON THE BALL.

When the Brazilians are attempting to draw fouls, you know it's bad. But that's what has come about. No one wants to attack, because they're too afraid of being hit on the counterattack, so both teams play this nowhere game and try to draw fouls. The best match of the tournament IMO was Sweden/Trinidad, because Sweden just went at it with guns blazing and Trinidad frantically tried to hold on with 10 men and pinch a counterattack. Sure, it was 0-0, but it was POSITIVE PLAY. Both teams were thinking they could win it.

And that, more than anything else, is the reason the US hates football: teams play negative. This entire Cup has been about negative play -- draw fouls, stay back on defense, try not to lose rather than to win. With a lot of teams playing a pathetic 4-5-1 formation that basically strands the striker on an island and leaves him double marked throughout the match (no WONDER he can't score), the only way anything happens is from a set piece (cf. England/Ecuador). So both teams spend the entire time trying to get set pieces, and the result is this sham that we call Germany 06.

And I'm sure coaches play the 4-5-1 because it allows them to say they've done something to impact the game. I saw this in the NBA and NHL: coaches began implementing offside traps and low-post double-teams and all this other stuff so that they could honestly say they weren't riding the players' coattails, and the result was an offensive drought so bad that both sports had to CHANGE THE RULES OF THE GAME to fix it! Why would you play a 4-5-1 with offside traps, pressing, and men behind the ball instead of putting your 10 best players (or best squad) on the outfield and telling them to go nuts? Because when you win, it's because YOU won, not THEM. That's the problem.

In conclusion, a culture of arrogance has consumed the World Cup, from the coaches to the players. The coaches demand to be known as the difference-maker, and thus kill the game with excessive tactical decisions. The players then believe that they are smarter and better than the officials, so they attempt to draw fouls and win set pieces. The higher-ups have to be seeing this, but they cannot admit a mistake is being made by them, so they let it slide -- or worse, shoot the messenger. The end result has been a predictable and pathetic parody of football, with simulation and downtime the only thing breaking up the monotony made infamous by the Simpsons.

So how do we fix this? We don't want to overhaul football, as much as some would like to. So what are the first steps? First, you need to change the coaching mindset. The best coaches are the ones who can decide what players to put on the pitch, then roll a ball out and get the hell out of the way. You're surrounded by the best your nation has to offer; these people know what they're doing; let them do it. Heck, I could coach the England squad and most people wouldn't know the difference because the team would put out 100% effort and talent on its own.

Second, punish players for killing time. I have never known an injury that required a stretcher and could be walked off in the same breath. If you're so hurt that you can't walk off the field, but the minute you're on the sideline you're prancing about and demanding to be back in, that should be a yellow card. Barring that, anyone who is so hurt that he can't leave under his own power must stay off the field for a minimum length of time -- say, three minutes -- because clearly he can't be healthy enough to run around until then. I bet you won't see so much agony if that happens. (Oh, and one my dad suggested: anything where the recipient rolls more than once is an automatic yellow card. That is just not a natural response to a tackle under any circumstances.)

Third -- and importantly -- demand positive play. I'm not sure how to do this without an overhaul -- some ideas I had, such as a half-point per goal bonus or no points for a 0-0 draw, I rejected offhand -- but the best football is positive football. Teams should be unconcerned with damage control and attempting to go full tilt. How do you accomplish this? Could you have all "level-on-points" decided by a playoff, as they were in the 1950s and 1960s? Make "goals for" the first tiebreaker instead of "goal difference", as was done in the 1970s? Do you expand the pitch to allow more running room -- CAN you do it without costing the clubs billions? Maybe it's as simple as going back to a 4-4-2 instead of a 4-5-1, or perhaps not relying on the offside trap. Maybe, if you let the players play and the coaches just step aside, that's all that's needed.

The best defense needs to be a good offense. Stop trying not to lose, FIFA. Try to win.

[The Kraig]

What he said. ^ (¬_¬)

Summary: It's been pretty crap, overall. A lot of teams under-performing (read: Serbia/Montenegro), a lot of players not picked for their countries when they should have, a lot of tentative, nervous football, awful (AWFUL) refereeing overall, constantly mired by controversy/stupidity - from Sepp Bladder being a twat to the idiot Argies attacking people.

The final's an anticlimax to the great group stage to be honest. Most of the KO round games were boring but there were some pure gems. Germany/Argentina and Germany/Italy were especially dramatic.

But there's still one match, possibly one GREAT match that will save this tournament from embarrassment. I truly, truly hope Italy and France play and good, fair game, no cheating of any sort (from malicious tackling to timewasting). They were both pretty lucky to even be in the final. Italy squeaked through against Australia and Germany and France nearly went out in the GROUP stage. They still have a lot to prove from both sides.

Anyways. Here's to a great final. And here's to everyone who's been following the World Cup, no matter which country you're from. It wouldn't be a World Cup without all you guys. ({)

Oh yeah, third place kick-off's at 8pm, GMT.

Edited July 8, 2006 by The Kraig

[Herr Matzat]

People do get Punished for slowing down the game if the ball issent in. If the ball is in an someone slowes it down it´s called tactics - no one should be punished for that, how silly would that be? The other team has eleven players to atack, it´s their fault if they are not good enough to keep the other team from slowing down the game.

Football is more than Klitchko vs Lewis, not that somethink like that CAN be good once every now and than but usualy it´s more and that is a good thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPAM5ci8ygY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwB_DThNQ5w

awful (AWFUL) refereeing overall

Edited July 8, 2006 by Michael Matzat on a Plane

[therockbox]

Even if the refereeing has been better than 2002 (not hard), it's still been poor. I actually feel sorry for the referees - at the beginning of the tournament they're told to 'protect skillful players', so basically card anyone for a tackle that touches the opponenet.

Then Blatter moans when there are too many cards, so the referees are reluctant to show any (the Portugal/France game springs to mind).

I'm just waiting for them to announce Rooney's been given an 8 month ban.

[Liam]

Goalkeepers: Gianluigi Buffon (Italy), Jens Lehmann (Germany), Ricardo (Portugal)

Defenders: Roberto Ayala (Argentina), John Terry (England), Lilian Thuram (France), Philipp Lahm (Germany), Fabio Cannavaro (Italy), Gianluca Zambrotta (Italy), Ricardo Carvalho (Portugal)

Midfielders: Ze Roberto (Brazil), Patrick Vieira (France), Zinedine Zidane (France), Michael Ballack (Germany), Andrea Pirlo (Italy), Gennaro Gattuso (Italy), Luis Figo (Portugal), Maniche (Portugal)

Strikers: Hernan Crespo (Argentina), Thierry Henry (France), Miroslav Klose (Germany), Francesco Totti (Italy), Luca Toni (Italy)

World Cup team. John Terry only player to make it from England, though it does make TheArsenal's suggestion that he was at times one of our worst players in years laughable, which I thank it for.

[unbedeutend]

Because of the one wonder goal he scored?

Ballack's been better than Frings. You could even argue Schneider and Schweinsteiger have been better than Frings.

then again ballack is a retard

[alldaws1]

8 FRINGS Torsten

Current Club: Werder Bremen (GER)

Ah, it all makes sense now.

[Liam]

I'm not sure about how well Frings played, but I do agree with the media over-rating Ballack's contribution. He probably wasn't fit for the whole tournament, but still, he wasn't anything special.

[TheArsenal]

Goalkeepers: Gianluigi Buffon (Italy), Jens Lehmann (Germany), Ricardo (Portugal)

Defenders: Roberto Ayala (Argentina), John Terry (England), Lilian Thuram (France), Philipp Lahm (Germany), Fabio Cannavaro (Italy), Gianluca Zambrotta (Italy), Ricardo Carvalho (Portugal)

Midfielders: Ze Roberto (Brazil), Patrick Vieira (France), Zinedine Zidane (France), Michael Ballack (Germany), Andrea Pirlo (Italy), Gennaro Gattuso (Italy), Luis Figo (Portugal), Maniche (Portugal)

Strikers: Hernan Crespo (Argentina), Thierry Henry (France), Miroslav Klose (Germany), Francesco Totti (Italy), Luca Toni (Italy)

World Cup team. John Terry only player to make it from England, though it does make TheArsenal's suggestion that he was at times one of our worst players in years laughable, which I thank it for.