NFL 2020

[DFF]

On 17/12/2020 at 08:57, DFF said:

Apparently its just that he has been designated to return; he won't be playing this week. 

Apparently he is now!

[The Buscher]

 

[gunnar hendershow]

Idk, Randy had more raw talent than anyone, if he had a QB like Brady for his whole career it wouldn't even be a contest for best ever.

[Meacon Keaton]

If you play the "What if Moss had a great QB all career" game, then you also have to play the "What if Rice had played in the 2000's/2010's" game. Because Rice put up records that none of the other guys have touched and in a much more defensive friendly game. 

[gunnar hendershow]

I don't agree with Randy mind you, but it's one of the great tragedies that we didn't get to see a generational player like Moss play with a Hall of Fame QB for most of his career. My main point about him is with that QB and when more effort put forth by him we wouldn't have this discussion because he was just miles ahead of everyone else in his time in terms of pure talent (that he tended not to tap into).

But I will say I don't think you can adjust for era, guys are by and large much bigger and much more athletic than they were in Rice's heyday even with the rule changes done to mitigate defenses. More importantly though you definitely can't have caveats for these things. You get the player when they played and who they played with and what they did with the talent they had and that's what is the final verdict.

Jim Otto would be blown up on every play in today's NFL but he's still the greatest center ever, for example.

[Meacon Keaton]

What I've always done with MLB players is compare them to the other players they played with. That's why, in my mind, Babe Ruth is the best baseball player of all time. He blew every other player in the league out of the water by comparison. Rice did the same at receiver when he played, while we had the likes of TO and Marvin Harrison and many others while Moss played. 

[GhostMachine]

Going off what damshow and Meacon said, you really can't compare players from different eras in any sport when talking about greatness. Its not just athletes being bigger today, but things like rules changes. The game is more defensive-minded today, yes, but at the same time those defenses have been watered down in the name of protecting players. I don't think guys like Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, or even Emmitt Smith would have set records or Brady would have as many postseason appearances, let alone Super Bowl wins, if they had played in an era when defensive players like Dick Butkus and Deacon Jones were pretty much laying people out and no one thought anything of it.  Today refs are so protective of QBs that they might as well use touch football rules as far as that position is concerned. If a player laid out a QB the way they hit back in the 60's, I'd imagine that player would be kicked out of the game and suspended for it.

Moss is nuts if he thinks he's better than Rice, though. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by GhostMachine

[Lint]

 

[livid]

Jerry Rice is perhaps the greatest football player of all time, regardless of position, so it's pretty crazy but it's also not surprising that Moss would feel that way.

I just love to see TO mentioned because he gets overlooked in these discussions all the time because of his personality but the dude was a phenomenal WR. 

[Adam]

Where's the Fitzgerald love?

Jerry Rice even called him the GOAT which, to be fair, is just very magnanimous of Rice, but Fitz is up there surely.

[Maxx]

Randy Moss could have been the greatest of all time, easily.  He didn’t have the work ethic.  Too much of a diva and after getting paid in Minnesota he got lazy.  When the teams he was on were bad he gave minimal effort.

Jerry Rice had the insanely competitive mindset all the greats have, but I’d say his rivaled Michael Jordan.

[GhostMachine]

3 hours ago, livid said:

Jerry Rice is perhaps the greatest football player of all time, regardless of position, so it's pretty crazy but it's also not surprising that Moss would feel that way.

I just love to see TO mentioned because he gets overlooked in these discussions all the time because of his personality but the dude was a phenomenal WR. 

 

3 hours ago, Maxx said:

Randy Moss could have been the greatest of all time, easily.  He didn’t have the work ethic.  Too much of a diva and after getting paid in Minnesota he got lazy.  When the teams he was on were bad he gave minimal effort.

Jerry Rice had the insanely competitive mindset all the greats have, but I’d say his rivaled Michael Jordan.

The thing is, if I was building a team, I'd take T.O. over Moss all day, every day. And Moss being a diva with a bad work ethic is exactly why. Was T.O. cocky? Yes, but he could back it up. Moss, on the other hand, was with 3 different teams in 2010, and was pretty much shit compared to how he used to be after 2009. (Plus didn't he get in trouble with one team because he bitched about the catering?)

Call me crazy, but I might even take Chad Ochocino/Johnson over Moss.

(Plus, T.O. is one of my all-time favorite players. The cockiness just made him that more entertaining.)

[gunnar hendershow]

Plenty of love for Larry Fitzgerald. He's one of those legends who during his career might never have been the best at his position in any given season, but all those guys who were briefly better than him flamed out while Larry remained great. I think he led the league in receptions twice and receiving TDs twice. But he had this 12 year peak where he was always in the top echelon of WRs, which is extremely hard to do. There's a handful of players like that in the sport's history.

He's very much a player's player. You ask the guys who played the game what kind of WR they look at as being great and it's Fitz, because of the consistency and longevity.

I think the HOF monitor on Pro Football Ref has him 4th all time, behind Rice, Moss, and Harrison and ahead of TO.

[Lineker]

Bills are AFC East champions for the first time since 1995.

[Pooker]

2020 is so weird.

[gunnar hendershow]

Funny 1995 was the last year the Bills were my "number one team" since the Ravens started play the following year.

[GhostMachine]

I just hope the Bills win the next time they go to the Super Bowl.....unless a miracle happens and they face the Cowboys again.

When they had that run of 4 Super Bowl losses in the 90's, I was actually pulling for them when they played the Giants and Redskins.

My stepson is insane and thinks its going to be Browns-Seahawks in the next one. 

 

[gunnar hendershow]

5 hours ago, GhostMachine said:

I just hope the Bills win the next time they go to the Super Bowl.....unless a miracle happens and they face the Cowboys again.

When they had that run of 4 Super Bowl losses in the 90's, I was actually pulling for them when they played the Giants and Redskins.

My stepson is insane and thinks its going to be Browns-Seahawks in the next one. 

 

Yeah that's nuts. Neither have the defense for deep runs in the playoffs. Pack, Saints, and Rams strike me as the three teams out of the NFC with a shot. Chiefs are really the only AFC team I feel with a shot. Bills and Titans don't have the defense. Ravens and Steelers don't have the offense. Colts have Philip Rivers.

[gunnar hendershow]

Dez Bryant scored a TD!

[VerbalPuke]

D'Andre Swift fumbles at the goaline. Tennessee takes possession deep in their own territory, Okwara sacks Tannehill for a safety. Lions get the ball back and Swift scores a touchdown. Matt Prater misses the PAT.

lol I fucking love this franchise.